Expanding as Japan

[Gratch1111]

So are there certain thresholds that you should keep under or dont do at all?
Like no use building HI, Naval shipyards etc above XXX
Dont build any of these, like LI, Merchant shipyards etc etc

[RangerJoe]

So are there certain thresholds that you should keep under or dont do at all?
Like no use building HI, Naval shipyards etc above XXX
Dont build any of these, like LI, Merchant shipyards etc etc

I suggest that you read some AARs from the Japanese perspective, some of them give good insights as to building such things for Japan.

[Gratch1111]

Looked around but some are playing mods and most just write AAR, not strategy, any recommendation that you know of?

[RangerJoe]

Look up Mike Solli's AARs. He was a military logistics person but is now retired and probably too busy now to be active here.

[Platoonist]

Here is Mike Solli's AAR where he outlines a lot of his production doctrines.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 0&start=20

[Gratch1111]

I looked at that and he did say what he did with SY RY and lots of other things but couldnt find anything on HI or LI expansion

[BBfanboy]

How far did you look? The question is essentially answered by Ranger Joe in the Heavy Industry thread in this very forum. The answer is - it depends on your other decisions. This is one of those things that you cannot ask anyone to answer for you unless you let them play your game for you. Get used to making decisions and living with the consequences - this game has a lot of that!

[LargeSlowTarget]

Players can pursue different strategies and options and can be recklessly aggressive and squander assets or be prudent and conserve their forces - in short, replacements needed and thus production required are unpredictable and therefore nobody can give you "thresholds" or precise numbers to aim for.

As a rule, it is always a numbers game and usually "more is better" esp. with the Allies getting a quality edge as the war drags on.

However, it is less a question of how much Japan needs to expand its industries, but rather how much it can afford to expand. The Japanese player need to restrain himself or play "Rob Peter to pay Paul". Fuel is the principal limiting factor as the amount available is pretty much governed by the known and fixed number of oil centres within reach of Japan - usually only what is available in the SRA, unless you manage to capture Ledo, Sian or Bakersfield. You must allocate the limited amount of fuel to run the industries - and the merchant ships needed to provide the industries with resources and fuel - and to fleet ops. Burn it for the industries and you will have to keep your fleet in port - or run big fleet ops and soon face fuel shortages for the convoys and industries.

Speaking from my experience:

I would recommend to modestly increase the vehicle factories - I usually expand them to 30 points each. I never expand armaments factories because there seem to be enough. Same for shipyards, I'd rather adjust the shipbuilding queue to keep shipyard points expenditure in line with shipyard points production. LI expansion is almost futile, you need to invest 1000 supplies to repair one LI point so it takes 2.7 years before the investment is amortised - not before mid-1944. HI needs to be expanded in relation to the expansion of vehicle, engine and airframe factories.

Aircraft production and related to it aircraft engine production certainly require a substantial expansion. How much essentially depends on your aircraft building plans, the use of your air forces, the way your opponent uses his air / anti-air and the losses you will suffer. Japan surely needs to focus more on fighters than on bombers.

For overall numbers you should keep in mind that the number of air units and thus the number of airframes "on map" is limited, so there is no point in expanding aircraft factories to build huge numbers of airframes since only a fixed number can be deployed. A certain reserve of airframes is needed, but it is nonsense to have hundreds of planes stockpiled, esp. earlier models which will be superseded by later more capable models. I usually stop production when there are 50-100 airframes in the pools per model. PDU off will complicate things here.

Furthermore, the really limiting factor is trained pilots or any kind of pilot, not airframes. Airframe production can be increased, but there is a limited monthly allotment of new pilots and it is well possible to empty the pools and even to draw all trainees out of the flight schools into on-map air groups. You will need to allocate air units to the front line and others to pilot training. Training units can use older airframes and hand-downs, it is usually not necessary to produce airframes for training - with the exception of Navy float-planes if you expand the FP groups via the CS ships. You need to make a choice between fewer frontline air units which can be kept supplied with reasonably well trained pilots, or more frontline units - which will put a greater strain on your pool of trained pilots - but consequently fewer training groups to provide enough and adequately trained pilots. In my experience at least half the available air units need to be training groups. Remember that it takes months to train enough qualified pilots to fill an air unit, but it may take only one day with a disastrous operation to kill most pilots of an air unit.

In short, I recommend to stay relatively modest in regards to expansions. Maybe setting a first goal of 1000 engines/month and 500 1-engine planes and 250 2-engine planes as a starting point and then observe the impact on the economy.

[Zeckke]

Dont touch nothing, (but send resorces and oil to OSAKA) build 200 engines oscar and stop and about 1750 zero engines A6m2; then A6m5 for a short period, dont waisted on A6m5 wich are paper for corsairs A6m5 dont need to fight is just to upgrade to A7 reppus

The game is perfect for japan engines dont over expanded, over Tokyo, the most important is the engines not the planes then you will build 3000 A7Reppus in 6 months that will destroy Corsairs easily,

Avoid carriers battles until 1944 train your pilots in 1941-42 and rest your carriers japan until 1944

The oil and resources will give the victory

[Kull]

Here is Mike Solli's AAR where he outlines a lot of his production doctrines.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 0&start=20

Yes, good advice! However, that link takes you to page 2, but be sure to go to page 1 which actually has an index so you aren't wandering aimlessly through a 238 page thread in search of nuggets:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 8#p2816058

I also highly recommend Damien's Japan Economic Primer, but can't seem to find it on the internet. Hopefully archived in the wayback machine, if anyone can post a link?

[Kull]

Actually, here it is:

Japanese Economy (Draft - Damien).pdf

(1.13 MiB) Downloaded 207 times

[btd64]

Actually, here it is:

Japanese Economy (Draft - Damien).pdf

I have a printed copy somewhere....GP

[Maallon]

LargeSlowTarget is pretty much on point and the Economic primer Kull posted is a good start to understand the basics.
Otherwise, you really can mostly do what you want, no need to follow a step by step guide or "never do this" kind of rules.

I would personally tie expansion decisions on how the game is progressing. If you for example only managed to secure half of the oil fields in the DEI intact, then there probably is no reason to expand HI in the Home Islands. Fuel will be a serious bottleneck for you for the rest of the game already and it may even be necessary to shut down HI at some point to conserve it.

I think the only real rule, when it comes to the Japanese Economy, is this: Expand moderately.
Recovering from a crash is very annoying.
Also Tracker is a huge help, reading turns at somewhat regular intervals will give you a history of your stockpiles.

[Gratch1111]

This might be a stupid question, but isnt it 100 supply to expand a factory not 1000?

[Gratch1111]

Got it, its 100+1000

[BBfanboy]

Yes, 100 gets you the concrete pad. 1000 gets you the girders and cladding and machinery (HI and Manpower points permitting).

[Gratch1111]

So basically expanding LI is a dead end since it wont payoff until Jan 1945

[RangerJoe]

So basically expanding LI is a dead end since it wont payoff until Jan 1945

Expanding LI in Fusan brings more resources there so you can load them into xAKLs for a short hop to a couple of Home Islands. That pays off in fuel saved.

But if you are playing a long game, as long as the LI in Korea and Manchuria is safe until after the Soviet activation, then expanding LI there pays off. If you can take out the Soviet Union, then it is safer.

[Gratch1111]

I assume there is no difference in cost in repairing existing LI versus building LI and repairing, except the 100 of course?

I honestly think the 1000 per LI point is a little steep, 500 would be more logical since we are talking about LI and not HI

[BBfanboy]

Correct - repair or expand costs 1000 supply.