Arty Unit functionality?

[jzardos]

Can somebody please refresh me what the arty div and armies provide? Do they have to directly attack or can they be more than one hex away?

Any rules sections people can provide will help too.

Thanks

[Beethoven1]

They are just another way to get more artillery into a battle. Yes, they can shoot from 2 hexes away rather than 1. (just shift + click to attack as you would with a normal unit, but from 1 hex further away).

For the most part, I think they are not worth it, because you can get plenty of artillery into battles anyway by attacking with multiple generals. So all they really do is take up scarce command capacity, whereas artillery Support Units take 0 command capacity.

[M60A3TTS]

For the most part, I think they are not worth it, because you can get plenty of artillery into battles anyway by attacking with multiple generals. So all they really do is take up scarce command capacity, whereas artillery Support Units take 0 command capacity.

I agree that the limited command capacity even late war for the Soviets makes for some challenging decisions.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

For the most part, I think they are not worth it, because you can get plenty of artillery into battles anyway by attacking with multiple generals. So all they really do is take up scarce command capacity, whereas artillery Support Units take 0 command capacity.

I agree that the limited command capacity even late war for the Soviets makes for some challenging decisions.

Ok, I inherited a 43 game and I currently have TWO full fronts empty. ZIP, zero, nada units in them. I have another front with 1/2 units in it. When will this "command capacity" hit?

I know in my other couple of Soviet games into 44 I did not have an issue with Command capacity. So I must be doing something wrong.

[Beethoven1]

Ok, I inherited a 43 game and I currently have TWO full fronts empty. ZIP, zero, nada units in them. I have another front with 1/2 units in it. When will this "command capacity" hit?

I know in my other couple of Soviet games into 44 I did not have an issue with Command capacity. So I must be doing something wrong.

It is not just command capacity as such to be concerned with, but also command capacity of good generals and command capacity of assault fronts specifically.

If you have artillery divisions at all, presumably you want to attack with them. If you want to to attack with them, ideally you would like them under an assault front for faster CPP gain (and you especially want an assault front prior to the artillery ammo penalty going away, since it is artillery you especially want it under an assault front). And you should also want a good general to command it in the attacks. If an attack is important enough that you would consider using an artillery division, it is presumably an important attack worth making with good generals.

But Rokossovsky can only command so many men.

And then who do you have left - Koroteev?

Clearly the lesser Konstantin to Rokossovsky.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Ok, I inherited a 43 game and I currently have TWO full fronts empty. ZIP, zero, nada units in them. I have another front with 1/2 units in it. When will this "command capacity" hit?

I know in my other couple of Soviet games into 44 I did not have an issue with Command capacity. So I must be doing something wrong.

It is not just command capacity as such to be concerned with, but also command capacity of good generals and command capacity of assault fronts specifically.

If you have artillery divisions at all, presumably you want to attack with them. If you want to to attack with them, ideally you would like them under an assault front for faster CPP gain (and you especially want an assault front prior to the artillery ammo penalty going away, since it is artillery you especially want it under an assault front). And you should also want a good general to command it in the attacks. If an attack is important enough that you would consider using an artillery division, it is presumably an important attack worth making with good generals.

But Rokossovsky can only command so many men.

And then who do you have left - Koroteev?

Clearly the lesser Konstantin to Rokossovsky.

The General with the most forces in the battle will be the chosen one. But yeah, I have my Art Division in my Assault fronts already. I don't see the issue in the games that I have had and this current one, but maybe I am just dumb.

[Beethoven1]

The General with the most forces in the battle will be the chosen one.

They are the one that gets their picture taken by the highfalutin photographer, but are they the only one whose stats contribute to what happens in the battle? Certainly not, at minimum, with regard to certain things such as SU commitment. The other generals in the battle independently roll to commit SUs (which is also part of the reason you don't really need artillery divisions for the most part, just use an extra general in an attack if you want more artillery to get committed). But do their stats for infantry/mech/etc also get used for the divisions that are under their command, or does only the guy who gets his picture in the paper count for ALL the divisions, even the ones he does not command? It's been a while since I read the 1000 page manual, but I don't remember it specifying one way or the other. And it is not exactly the easiest thing to test. But given that some other rolls like for initiative are done general-by-general, I would suspect those other rolls may also general-by-general.

But yeah, I have my Art Division in my Assault fronts already. I don't see the issue in the games that I have had and this current one, but maybe I am just dumb.

Well, it is true that you will sooner or later win anyway because the game is snowbally and so the Axis will likely collapse faster than historical. There is something to be said for not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, and if you like to use artillery divisions for whatever reason, by all means have at it. It's not like they have no benefits at all, it is more a question of whether the costs outweigh the benefits, given that you generally have a shortage of artillery (of the good heavy stuff, not as much so the regular artillery).

[HardLuckYetAgain]

There is something to be said for not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good

80/20

[M60A3TTS]

Ok, I inherited a 43 game and I currently have TWO full fronts empty. ZIP, zero, nada units in them. I have another front with 1/2 units in it. When will this "command capacity" hit?

It is not a hit per se. Previous game versions had a front command capacity of around 145. The current version is about 2/3 of that. It's good for about 4 full Soviet armies to a front. Historically it was common towards the end for the Soviets to have twice that in the Berlin-East Prussia direction.

[rickwarintheeast]

Ok, I inherited a 43 game and I currently have TWO full fronts empty. ZIP, zero, nada units in them. I have another front with 1/2 units in it. When will this "command capacity" hit?

Sorry HYLA, can't figure out how to directly quote you.

I've played StB twice, using your excellent 'how to close the trap at Stalingrad' once, and the other as my own brew.

Armies to Fronts is an interesting problem, with many Fronts oversubscribed. Adding to the problem are the frozen Fronts and Armies, plus Leningrad undermanned, and Konov's Front waaaaaaaay too big. I guess it gives me something to do while I'm slowly grinding the German Sixth Army down.

At some point, I do wind up with a spare Front, about the time Stalingrad is finally reduced. I move the HQ and a number of Army HQs back to depots, and start the slow process of rehabilitating the 'victors' of Stalingrad. Through much of the remainder of the war, I use a Front and poorly officered Armies to rebuild units.

As for the artillery divisions, I usually have an artillery army for each Front, and give it three RCs to punch holes in German lines.

Regards,

Rick

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Ok, I inherited a 43 game and I currently have TWO full fronts empty. ZIP, zero, nada units in them. I have another front with 1/2 units in it. When will this "command capacity" hit?

Sorry HYLA, can't figure out how to directly quote you.

I've played StB twice, using your excellent 'how to close the trap at Stalingrad' once, and the other as my own brew.

Armies to Fronts is an interesting problem, with many Fronts oversubscribed. Adding to the problem are the frozen Fronts and Armies, plus Leningrad undermanned, and Konov's Front waaaaaaaay too big. I guess it gives me something to do while I'm slowly grinding the German Sixth Army down.

At some point, I do wind up with a spare Front, about the time Stalingrad is finally reduced. I move the HQ and a number of Army HQs back to depots, and start the slow process of rehabilitating the 'victors' of Stalingrad. Through much of the remainder of the war, I use a Front and poorly officered Armies to rebuild units.

As for the artillery divisions, I usually have an artillery army for each Front, and give it three RCs to punch holes in German lines.

Regards,

Rick

Ya, the Stalingrad write-up is out of date for sure since some of those units are frozen now days. (I do believe Beethoven expanded on my write-up too after the update, I am sure that would be better)

Ya, I am doing the same with an Army of Artillery per front, at the moment Assault fronts