America's inevitable slide towards war?

[havoc1371]

As the CP, I've not invaded Belgium (Entente actually did, with no reaction from the US), did not declare unrestricted warfare. Yet the US is sliding towards a DoW at 5% a turn in 1916. At this rate (38% as of Nov 1916), they will DoW only a little later than when they did historically. What is up with that? US was pretty isolationist about getting involved in what was considered a European War, though the yellow press did play up the invasion of the neutral Belgium, and it did have close ties to England. But the trigger for the DoW was the German restarting of unrestricted submarine warfare. So do the designers feel the US should join the Entente no matter what? Seem pointless to make an effort to avoid antagonizing them if that's the case.

[BillRunacre]

Has Russia been defeated?

If Russia is no longer in the war then the USA will have a greater incentive to support the Entente, to avoid losing the vast sums owed them by the UK and France. But this alone will not lead to a rapid move towards war.

Additionally, the UK may fund the Preparedness Movement, see DE 140 in the Strategy Guide, and the two coupled together could explain the movements you are seeing.

Normally, if the Entente are enforcing a naval blockade then you will also see swings back the other way, or less of a swing towards the Entente.

[scpeth]

Reference a point mentioned in the OP, was wondering what the rationale is for allowing the Allies to invade Belgium with zero impact on their relations with the US?

[havoc1371]

Has Russia been defeated?

If Russia is no longer in the war then the USA will have a greater incentive to support the Entente, to avoid losing the vast sums owed them by the UK and France. But this alone will not lead to a rapid move towards war.

Additionally, the UK may fund the Preparedness Movement, see DE 140 in the Strategy Guide, and the two coupled together could explain the movements you are seeing.

Normally, if the Entente are enforcing a naval blockade then you will also see swings back the other way, or less of a swing towards the Entente.

Yes, Russia has been defeated, but the 5% per turn climb in US sliding towards the Entente began before that happened. Entente has been enforcing the blockade from the start of the game without any impact on the US climb to war. Seems pointless for the CP player to avoid things that antagonize America since the AI will have them go to war no matter what.

[BillRunacre]

Reference a point mentioned in the OP, was wondering what the rationale is for allowing the Allies to invade Belgium with zero impact on their relations with the US?

There is, but as the USA was already at zero % mobilization, consequently the script had no impact because the USA cannot be moved to have a pro-Central Powers leaning, as neutral Majors cannot switch sides. But if the USA had had a higher mobilization level then it would have been impacted.

[BillRunacre]

Has Russia been defeated?

If Russia is no longer in the war then the USA will have a greater incentive to support the Entente, to avoid losing the vast sums owed them by the UK and France. But this alone will not lead to a rapid move towards war.

Additionally, the UK may fund the Preparedness Movement, see DE 140 in the Strategy Guide, and the two coupled together could explain the movements you are seeing.

Normally, if the Entente are enforcing a naval blockade then you will also see swings back the other way, or less of a swing towards the Entente.

Yes, Russia has been defeated, but the 5% per turn climb in US sliding towards the Entente began before that happened. Entente has been enforcing the blockade from the start of the game without any impact on the US climb to war. Seems pointless for the CP player to avoid things that antagonize America since the AI will have them go to war no matter what.

There must be something else going on then, because there is no script to start moving the USA with such frequency/consistency on a per turn basis that early in the war, apart from following the loss of Russia, or the use of unrestricted Naval Warfare.

Please can you send me a saved turn?

bill.runacre@furysoftware.com

[havoc1371]

Has Russia been defeated?

If Russia is no longer in the war then the USA will have a greater incentive to support the Entente, to avoid losing the vast sums owed them by the UK and France. But this alone will not lead to a rapid move towards war.

Additionally, the UK may fund the Preparedness Movement, see DE 140 in the Strategy Guide, and the two coupled together could explain the movements you are seeing.

Normally, if the Entente are enforcing a naval blockade then you will also see swings back the other way, or less of a swing towards the Entente.

Yes, Russia has been defeated, but the 5% per turn climb in US sliding towards the Entente began before that happened. Entente has been enforcing the blockade from the start of the game without any impact on the US climb to war. Seems pointless for the CP player to avoid things that antagonize America since the AI will have them go to war no matter what.

There must be something else going on then, because there is no script to start moving the USA with such frequency/consistency on a per turn basis that early in the war, apart from following the loss of Russia, or the use of unrestricted Naval Warfare.

Please can you send me a saved turn?

bill.runacre@furysoftware.com

My opponent resigned the game, so I wouldn't know how to send you the file.

[BillRunacre]

Yes, Russia has been defeated, but the 5% per turn climb in US sliding towards the Entente began before that happened. Entente has been enforcing the blockade from the start of the game without any impact on the US climb to war. Seems pointless for the CP player to avoid things that antagonize America since the AI will have them go to war no matter what.

There must be something else going on then, because there is no script to start moving the USA with such frequency/consistency on a per turn basis that early in the war, apart from following the loss of Russia, or the use of unrestricted Naval Warfare.

Please can you send me a saved turn?

bill.runacre@furysoftware.com

My opponent resigned the game, so I wouldn't know how to send you the file.

Ah, so it was PBEM then?

You did reference the AI previously.

If it is a PBEM game then you can hover over it in the PBEM lobby, and see a challenge id. You can then send me that, or post it here.

[havoc1371]

The reference to the AI had to do with the diplomacy jumping up each turn for the US; that was the game AI doing that.

[havoc1371]

There must be something else going on then, because there is no script to start moving the USA with such frequency/consistency on a per turn basis that early in the war, apart from following the loss of Russia, or the use of unrestricted Naval Warfare.

Please can you send me a saved turn?

bill.runacre@furysoftware.com

My opponent resigned the game, so I wouldn't know how to send you the file.

Ah, so it was PBEM then?

You did reference the AI previously.

If it is a PBEM game then you can hover over it in the PBEM lobby, and see a challenge id. You can then send me that, or post it here.

ID 430361

[BillRunacre]

I've reviewed the latest save now and Russia's withdrawal from the war does appear to have coincided with the USA's increase in mobilization:





Incidentally, I did notice that the Entente's blockade has also annoyed the US. The impact in decreasing its mobilization is not massive but the scripts are definitely working:

[havoc1371]

So if everything is normal, why is American sliding towards a spring 1917 DoW despite no unrestricted warfare and the Entente invaded Belgium, not the CP? Only because Russia was defeated? Seems the game is programed for the CP to fail no matter what unless it can outright defeat Russia and France both. Games I've played in the past where I took out Russia and Serbia, I only won because my opponent gave up. I've yet to play a game where the U.S. enters the war and gets troops on the ground, because one side or the other throws in the towel before then.

If we are playing a simulation where you get to make decisions, shouldn't the whole attempt to influence Mexico by the CP be an event they can choose to do or not?

I have concluded that invading Belgium and attacking France first is a losing strategy in this game if you and your opponent have fairly equivalent skills at the game. CP forces always peter out short of Paris and have to start shoring up the East against an aggressive Russian offensive. So by Apr/May 1915, Italy DoW's and its pretty much over for the CP having the initiative.

So this ends up being a "go East" game every time with only minor variations in strategy for the CP (i.e. take out Russia first, Serbia first, or both at once). Entente strategy is either aggressively trying to break the German line in the West as is, or invade Belgium as well. Most shuttle French and British expeditionary forces into Serbia and Italy (when it joins). After a while this limited options has me moving on to other games, only coming back after a time.

On the plus side, there are not as many opportunities for players to make gamey moves to try to manipulate the system to gain an advantage. I can't remember anytime I thought my opponent did something horribly ahistorical or gamey in SC WW I.

[BillRunacre]

So if everything is normal, why is American sliding towards a spring 1917 DoW despite no unrestricted warfare and the Entente invaded Belgium, not the CP? Only because Russia was defeated?

The reason that the fall of Russia impacts on US mobilization, especially if the UK invests in funding the Preparedness Movement, is that an Entente defeat would have led to the loss of huge sums of money that had been loaned to the Entente countries to help prop up their war effort. There was a very strong financial incentive to avoid their defeat.

US mobilization is only going to be crucial in certain circumstances, so their war entrance will be unlikely to save a battered Entente that is close to collapse. It may however provide a useful boost if it is struggling, or help transform a stalemated situation into leading to an Entente victory.

If we are playing a simulation where you get to make decisions, shouldn't the whole attempt to influence Mexico by the CP be an event they can choose to do or not?

It is, please see DE 615 in the Strategy Guide.