Is this a viable fleet defense tactic?

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HalfLifeExpert
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Is this a viable fleet defense tactic?

Post by HalfLifeExpert »

I may have asked this in the past but I honestly can't remember.

When defending a fleet against the threat of ASCMs:

Does it make sense to deploy an OECM aircraft (if available) on a low altitude station along the projected threat axis?

I'm thinking in the sense of using A/C such as Prowlers, Growlers, J-16Ds, and F-35s with Jammers ON, as extra Electronic countermeasures to incoming Anti-Ship missile threats, and having them operate no higher than 1500-2000 ft to try and spoof/mess with missile seekers.

This would primarily be in use when defending a CVBG, but also for potentially protecting a Convoy as well.

Is this a good idea? Would it work?

I thought of this in some scenarios where my ability to strike first is limited by the opposing side outranging/outnumbering my offensive Anti-Ship strike capabilities, and I'd like an extra ability to thwart their first salvo so I can close the distance and strike back.
caelunshun
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Re: Is this a viable fleet defense tactic?

Post by caelunshun »

It might be feasible in theory to do this, if the geometry is optimal (i.e. OECM aircraft exactly on the vector between the missile and the ship), the missile uses only radar guidance, and a bunch of other factors line up perfectly. I don't think you'll be able to achieve this in CMO, though I would be glad to be proven wrong.

A more reliable approach IMO is to use OECM to prevent the enemy from getting a target lock in the first place, thus preventing the missiles from firing. And if they do manage to fire, you can maneuver your ships perpendicular to the threat axis at flank speed and have a good chance of dodging the seekers (so long as they're not getting midcourse guidance from an AWACS/fighter radar/etc.). I've found this to be effective even against modern anti-ship missiles like the LRASM.
Fido81
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Re: Is this a viable fleet defense tactic?

Post by Fido81 »

I think it's theoretically possible, but I recall reading somewhere that the OECM emitters have to be between the ships and the missiles not just in bearing, but also in altitude. This probably makes the tactic more suitable against air-launched ASMs that fly at altitude than sea-skimming missiles.

You'll also need to make sure the ECM aircraft are operating in the same radar bands as the missiles and have appropriate emission arcs.
Ex: EA-6B Prowlers equipped with 5x AN/ALQ-99D pods (DB3K DBID 783) can jam radar transmissions in the A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J bands. It may jam the J-band active radar seeker on the SS-N-19 Shipwreck (DB3K DBID 109), but won't have any effect on the K-Band active radar seeker on the missile. It may jam the active radar sensor on the AS-4 Kitchen A Mod 2 (DB3K DBID 1820), which has no other target seekers, and which is not a sea skimming missile. I was able to jam the missiles during a portion of their flight, but was ultimately unable to prevent a hit on the carrier in an unscientific trial, when I shot 1 missile at a carrier protected by 1 Prowler 1 time.

This interaction between the Prowler and the Shipwreck raises a question I don't believe I've seen in the literature: Does OECM as modelled in CMO interfere with passive radar seekers, attract passive radar seekers, or have no effect on them?
thewood1
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Re: Is this a viable fleet defense tactic?

Post by thewood1 »

Ship-based DECM will most likely be much more powerful and numerous than an OECM-oriented aircraft. And you ship formation should allow for that. If you are playing the odds, getting an aircraft in the proper geometry to have an effect on very short-ranged and fast missiles is very low. The range of the radar on a missile is so short that the window for effect by an aircraft D/OECM is very small. As mentioned, the airborne ECM platform is probably better used much further out to reduce the enemy sensor's targeting range.
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SunlitZelkova
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Re: Is this a viable fleet defense tactic?

Post by SunlitZelkova »

I think this is why the SH-60 now has an OECM pod available as one of its loadouts.

When I built a scenario to test a Chinese CVG vs. US CBG, I had an SH-60 with the pod (AN/???-248? I forget the designation) flying in a line in front of the CBG, where the missiles were expected to come from.

I didn’t use fighters though.
"One must not consider the individual objects without the whole."- Generalleutnant Gerhard von Scharnhorst, Royal Prussian Army
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HalfLifeExpert
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Re: Is this a viable fleet defense tactic?

Post by HalfLifeExpert »

Apologies for taking a while to reply.

Thank you for the responses, they were helpful.

I know full well that both Ship based OECM and jamming to prevent targeting/launch can be much more effective.

I was thinking about using OECM aircraft in the sense of supplementing/reinforcing ship-based OECM when there's a large threat, and/or when few of the ships in the formation actually have OECM, like a Convoy or a small carrier group with only one advanced AAW ship.

In terms of using OECM to prevent the enemy getting a firing solution, I agree that's the best overall strategy, but I've run into some situations (like when using the QE Class carriers), where the only OECM aircraft I have are F-35s, and there's a limited number of them, and I don't want to peel off one too far from defending the carrier, especially if I don't necessarily have the assets to effectively scout out where the enemy surface force is AND have an effective CAP defense.

So to me it looks like the only OECM aircraft that may work for purely ASCM defense purposes are helos with OECM. Good to know.
thewood1
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Re: Is this a viable fleet defense tactic?

Post by thewood1 »

The main use for the OECM SH-60 that I have found through play is to draw off HoJ capable missiles. I have seen very little effect on jamming radar as a bonus over ship-based jammers.
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