US Carriers.. to send home or no?

[Jon_Hal]

I started a AI game today against the Japanese. Scenario 17, Has it been discussed much on the boards the idea of sending your US carriers back to Pearl right away for it's upgrades? Do you guys think an decent Port Morseby defense can be given without your Carriers for the first month of the campaign? Thanks for your input.

Jon

[Hoplosternum]

Against the AI it is a very viable strategy to send your CVs back for the Flak upgrades. Some people also do this against a human player to but it can entail risks.

You may want to just send the CVs back and keep the airgroups in theatre. To some this borders on an exploit/cheat against the unfortunate AI [;)]

It will put you under more pressure at PM if you do send them back, especially if their airgroups go with them. But against the AI it can be held if you can keep the airfield open most of the time. Also you should be very cautious about taking on the Japanese CVs in May anyway. Your Wildcats (F4F-3) do not upgrade (to F4F-4s) until late on in the month and before the first squadron changes you have less than 20 fighters per CV, where as this jumps to 36 a piece after the first upgrade (there are then replacements for the other F4F-3 squadron so it can fill up too).

If you are not going to risk a clash with Shoho, Zuikaku and Shokaku until later then upgrading your CVs AA will come in very handy. You might wish to send the others back as they arrive for the first time too. Again this is viable against the AI who tends to be quite deliberate, but can be far more dangerous if you are playing a human opponent.

There are a couple of things to consider. Firstly they will be gone for quite a while. The journey from Pearl is about 3 weeks IIRC and you pay that both ways. So even if they are released immediately they are still gone for a a month and a half. Secondly make sure you watch your ship commitment levels. Pearl may send extra cruisers, destroyers and transports to replace the value of these ships on the map. Make sure that you are at 'High' when there are CVs available at Pearl otherwise you may find yourself without them for even longer.

[madflava13]

Just wanted to jump in real quick with my two cents...

I don't ever risk CVs to defend PM because I don't think the Allied player can realistically hold PM against the IJN player. If the IJN makes a push, I let them have PM, then pound the hell out of it with LBA... I keep the CVs to the east where they have more room and can't get boxed in so easily by the death star...

[Drex]

I send my CVs back to Pearl not only for AA upgrades but also it takes a month or so for the Wildcats to upgrade to 4F4s. I'd just as soon not face those Zeros without the better fighters. Historically though the CVs were used to defend PM but in UV you will be facing more than 2 Japanese CVs.

[redman1]

If the Allies withdraw their CV's right away, then what's the downside for the IJN to invading Noumea during the first 2-3 months? If Noumea falls, then not only will the Allies not have a CV in theater, but they also won't get one to help win back Noumea. Food for thought.

[DoomedMantis]

I dont send them back, but try to use them wisely. Mind you in most of my games at the moment I am playing without carriers as the death star caught them

[redman1]

I've never played Allies, even vs. AI. However, I don't think the allies can afford to send Lex and Yorkie back right away. They at least need to remain in theater to threaten the IJN enough to prevent the taking of Noumea or Brisbane.

As IJN, if I don't spot the Allied CV's within 2-3 weeks of the start of scen's 17 or 19, I start actively looking for them via forays to the south to make sure they're still there (in theater vs. back at PH) and to either attack them (when I figure I'll come out ahead) or to at least vector subs towards them. It also lets me know how aggressive my opponent is, and therefore how much land-grabbing I can get away with in NG and the Solomons. I can guarantee you that if I think those CV's are back in PH, then I'm heading towards Noumea.

[Hoplosternum]

Redman 1 - If you are playing a human player then it is certainly a big risk sending back your CVs without at least establishing how aggressive the Japanese player is and where he is initially heading. However Jon was asking about fighting the AI who is unlikely to plunge straight for Noumea unfortunately.

Madflava13 - I would agree that trying to hold PM against a human opponent is very tough and usually suicidal even in scenario 17. But it is certainly do able against the AI.

Vs both AI or human player if you keep the CVs airgroups you will have a much easier time. Against the AI you could even put some in PM! A human player closes down PM too effectively and keeps it closed (so the squadrons are permenantly lost when it falls) but the AI often fails to do this and so you can get away with the strategy. Naval dauntlesses at PM will get a lot of kills from the AI. Even if PM falls the AI will give you many chances to flee the squadrons out before the end that a human player would never do.

Land based CV planes at Noumea and the surrouunding bases can possibly hold off an early Japanese strike too. Those bases are far more difficult to knock out than your fragile CVs and they get back in action very soon if they are hit. Plane losses are rapidly replaced (unlike squadron losses). All the CVs do is give your airpower mobility. Which you don't really need defending New Caladonia. Just make sure you engineers have built up a few extra bases on New Cal before the Japanese arrives otherwise it is too easy for the Japanese to kill your LBA threat by repeatedly bombarding just one airbase.

[Nomad]

Another thing to think about is whether there will be some CA/CL/CLAA and DDs available for your CVs to return. It seems like it takes a minimum of 2 CA/CL/CLAAs and 4 DDs as escort for CVs. It is frustrating to have CVs in PH and no escorts to get them to Nouema.

[Drex]

The IJN doesn't have the troops in the first month or so and if the CVs are sent back immediately they will return in time for an invasion. the CVs however are no deterrent to an invasion when the IJN has all their CVs.I believe Noumea must be taken by the first part of July or the Allies will have too many troops to reinforce Noumea.

[Jon_Hal]

I haven't tried this strat against a human or the AI but it seems that it would take the Japanese at least a couple of weeks to determine where exactly the US CVs are. By the time the invasion is planned and the determination that the CVs are back at Pearl I would think they would already be on there way back. It also seems like leaving the CV's Airwing at Nomea would help deter an invasion of Nomea itself. Perhaps another single player game against the AI is in order...

[Mark VII]

I think it takes 19 days for fast ships to get back to PH, another 19 to return. Those the carriers should be returning(if set in first day or two) to the map June 8-10th(provided you sent the minimum escort mentioned earlier to bring them back), all will have much improved AA.

If not reinforced, Luganville and/or Efate can be taken by the Japanese to set up closer bases to help take Noumea. If the airgroups are left behind, the Allies should be able to defend at least Efate and cause some good damage to IJN forces as they land on Luganville or attempt Efate.

If you are not going to defend PM with the CV's, running them back to PH right away would seem to be a safe gambit as far as keeping Noumea is concerned.