Modifying Orders Spanning more than One Command Cycle

[rmeckman]

As I have gained more experience with FCSS, I've tended to issue more unit orders that span multiple command cycles. That has led me to the issue of whether the commander is allowed to modify orders that carry over into later cycles. Recently In the Finale scenario, I set up 6 movement orders for one of the Soviet mechanized infantry companies at the start of the scenario (time 0800). To allow time for recon units to move ahead, I added 30 minutes of extra delay to the first order, so the company would start moving at 0830. After completing turn 1 at 0827, the company is as expected still waiting in its initial hex.

At this point my thinking was that the company's initial 30-minute delay could be adjusted in turn 2 based on what the recon units encountered. In the Orders Tab, I therefore added an extra 5 minutes of delay to the company's first order, so it would move out at 0835 rather than 0830. The image below shows the status of the company (1/4/15 TR) at 0854 when turn 2 has completed. Rather than moving out at 0835, the company remains stuck in its original hex. In effect, modifying the time delay for order 1 appears to have disabled all 6 movement orders. I've had similar experiences when modifying a SOP parameter for an order.

Having the commander in this case delay the company's jump-off time with just three minutes warning is in reality unrealistic. But players seem to be getting conflicting feedback on whether orders can be modified in later command cycles. The Orders Tab allows modifications without issuing any warnings, but the behavior of the units during the cycles indicates that the modified orders are disabled. Is the game rule intended to be that orders should not be modified in later cycles, other than deleting the carried-over orders and creating new ones? I have so far not found any discussion of this in the manual or forum.

[CapnDarwin]

Do you have the save game for this issue? I am curious if the unit "dug-in" with the 30-minute delay and is taking extra time to pack up before moving.

[rmeckman]

The attached file contains two saves. The save with a 1421 time tag is the situation at the start of turn 2 (0827 game time) before any player changes. 1/4/15 TR still has its orders to move out at 0830, issued in turn 1. The unit counter shows the company in a move "M" status. Running turn 2 from this save with game version 2.1.3.7735, the company follows the orders as planned.

The second save with the 1752 tag is the same as the first except for one change: I used the Orders Tab for 1/4/15 TR to add an additional 5 minutes of delay to order 1. The company is now scheduled to move out at 0835 rather than 0830. When I execute turn 2 from this save, 1/4/15 TR never moves from its original hex. The image in my OP is this unit at the end of turn 2, still in the starting hex and "M" status.

[SgtZdog]

This is definitely a bug. Myself and someone else (I don't remember if it was Alex or one of the people on discord) were talking about it the other day. It's a very unpleasant experience currently, regardless of what the correct behavior is supposed to be.

[CapnDarwin]

Kevin, can you please write a JIRA for this with the above information and your observations for William to review? Thanks.

[Tcao]

AFAIK, if you issue the delay on the waypoint 1, and later revise the delay, either on WP 1 or other WP. It is processed as a new order issued, with base delay + extra delay.

On the other hand, if the WP 1 is no delay , assuming by next turn cycle you have not reach WP 1, and you issue Delay on WP 2 or WP3, then it will process as intended. The unit will reach the WP1 then immediately proceed on the next WP with planned delay time.

[Tcao]

I noticed the weird thing about multiple waypoints and order delay might have the same root cause to the OP.

you issued 6 WP orders

WP 1: Hasty
WP 2: Hasty
WP 3: Deliberate
WP 4: Deliberate (and a 15min delay to initiate the order
WP 5 and 6 :Deliberate

Under normal circumstance , unit should move hasty to 1 , to 2 then immediately switch to deliberate to 3, wait there for 15 min then proceed to WP 4.

but what happen is after unit move hasty to 1, to 2, there is a delay between WP 2 and WP3, total delay is 16min .Considering the time need to move on 1 hex, it is as if the 15min delay happens when unit switch from move hasty to move deliberate. Then another 15min delay will happen between WP3 and WP4 (that is a WAD)

[rmeckman]

you issued 6 WP orders

WP 1: Hasty
WP 2: Hasty
WP 3: Deliberate
WP 4: Deliberate (and a 15min delay to initiate the order
WP 5 and 6 :Deliberate

I assume you meant "Deliberate" where "Hasty" is listed and "Assault" where "Deliberate" is listed in the post.

After more investigation, I do think the behavior described in the OP is related to one aspect of order delay factors: many delay factors are waived on turn 1 on the assumption that the initial orders were developed well in advance. On turn 1 at 0800 game time, I issued six movement orders to 1/4/15 TR, including an extra delay to Order 1 that pushed everything back to 0830. Being turn 1, the normal 30-min delay factor for assaults was waived.

Since turn 2 starts at 0827, I had an opportunity in turn 2 to adjust any of the six orders for 1/4/15 TR carried over from turn 1. I therefore added five more minutes delay to Order 1, so it starts at 0835 rather than 0830. Although Order 1 is a deliberate move, modifying this order appears to have caused the game engine to scan through all six orders and notice that at least one is an assault order. It seems to treat these assault orders as being issued in the current turn, so the 30-min assault delay waived in turn 1 gets added back to Order 1 on turn 2. Instead of moving out at 0835, the company waits until 0835 + 30 min = 0905 in turn 3. This is what I observe in turn 3.

A similar problem may occur even in later turns. If one issues a set of orders in turn i that includes at least one assault order, the 30-minute assault delay will be imposed as designed in turn i. If the player adjusts any of these orders in turn i+1, the game engine may scan through all the orders and think any assault orders were issued in the current turn, so the 30-min delay may be imposed a second time in turn i+1.