Soviet Corps numbers

[Wiedrock]

EDIT: This post initially was only about Rifle Corps numbers, but attached in the second Post you can find updated build limits for Cavalry, Mechanized and Tank Corps as well.

Soviet Rifle Corps numbers are too high.

Rifle Corps Numbers_RAH.png (72.81 KiB) Viewed 510 times

Numbers on a "max per year" scale with the Month of the highest value.
Notes:

• That page (see year-links) lists Rifle Corps and Airborne Corps sometimes combined (due to the few short lived Airborne Corps later on), I stick to the numbers the page states.
• Note that some of the Rifle Corps contained Airborne Divisions. But that's another issue.

1941
1941 is special
1942
Souce: December 30
WITE2: Januar 41 (IRL only 6 Corps in January)
1943
Source: December 151
WITE2: Januar 193 (IRL only 34 Corps in January)
1944
Source: Oct-Dec 174
WITE2: Januar 209 (IRL only 161 Corps in January)
1945
Source: "whole" 174
WITE2: Januar 209

As can be seen:

• caps raise too early, January early that year vs. December later that year)
• caps numbers even when if the Month would be the same are above IRL numbers overall.

My guess for those too high numbers is that:

• 1942 - Includes the Airborne Brigades (+10) but those are already present in the game separately.
• 1943 - Adding the 151 together with all other IRL Corps in December 1943 you'd only get ~196 [so all Cavalry, Mot/Mech, Tank Corps included]. So I have no idea how this number of 193 came to be, other than guessing it's the sum of ALL CORPS the Soviets had.
• 1944 - Still about 35 Corps too much. In December 45 Corps are Cav(8)/Mech(13)/Tank(24) combined, so again may hint towards some have been added together at some date that year.

Solutions:

• Change numbers

...honestly, there would be many ways to approach this.

• First of all, changing the numbers....then eventually...
  • Average over the year (12months).
  • Average Jan/Dec.
  • Average Jan/Apr/Jul/Oct or so...(every 3 Months)
  • Shifting numbers by 1 year (is hefty especially for 1942 & 1943).
  • Add more change Dates.
  • Make the Change in Month 6 or 7 of that year.

[Wiedrock]

For those wanting to mod build limits closer to reality. Added to WOTE.

Notes:
Rifle Corps is probably the only 'serious' change. Historically numbers in 1942 changed as (Jan-Jul) 6/8/10/10/11/16/19. The 10 in January 1942 is a compromise. More build limit changes can not be added unfortunately (8dates x 4info = 32 I assume(?)).
It leaves out the spike of 17 Cavalry Corps in spring of 1942.
I have no idea how Devs came to 8 Cavalry Corps in 1941.
I have no idea how Devs came to use a high of 16 Mechanized Corps and 29 Tank Corps as a build limit. At least my sources do not indicate those numbers.

Sources used:
see initial Post.
One of the Source pages is only accessible any longer using the web archive.

[Denniss]

Changes mande so far see below, do you have a link to the source of the table in first post? Looking for division numbers (separate, not under corps).

Code: Select all

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x OB Chain Build Limits x
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2086	Tank Corps (SU)			1943 Limit of 29 removed
2189	Mechanized Corps (SU)		1942: 10->8 Limit; 1943: 16->14 Limit
2220	Cavalry Corps (SU)		1942: 14->12 Limit; 1943: 12->10 Limit; 1944: 10->8 Limit
2275	Guards Airborne Division (SU)	1942: 19->10 Limit; 1/44->12/43 availability; 1945 cap removed
2314	Rifle Corps (SU)		1942: 41->30 Limit; 1943: 193->149 Limit; 1944: 209->169 Limit
2333	Rifle Division (SU)		1943: 8->100 Limit; 1944: 8->50 Limit
2394	Artillery Division (SU)		1942: 30->27 limit, 10->11/42 availability; 1944: 44->37 limit, 1->7/44 availability
2402	Rocket Launcher Division (SU)	1942: 5->4 Limit; 1943: 8->7 Limit

[Wiedrock]

do you have a link to the source of the table in first post?

No link, it's always about the same on the first pages in RA Handbook, Companion to the RA and all those "newly named versions" of that book.

On this homepage (only archive is available anymore) you can also count/look up yourself for certain dates.

[Rexzapper]

The complete initial table is taken from the book (as Wiedrock mentions) by Leland S. Ness and Steven J. Zaloga's Red Army Handbook 1939-1945. Sutton Publishing, 1998. ISBN 0-7509-1740-7.

I don't have the exact number of separate divisions, although a general idea can be obtained by subtracting "approximately" those within Corps.

[Denniss]

Update

Code: Select all

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x OB Chain Build Limits x
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2086	Tank Corps				1942: 26->22; 1943: 29->24
2099	Tank Brigade				1942: 121->126; 1943: 202->108; 1944: 96->81; 1945: 64->61
2127	Anti-Tank Brigade			1943: 60->50; 1944: 67->56;1945: 79->66
2132	Heavy Tank Regiment			1942: 38->18, 1943: 56->35
2135	Separate Tank Regiment			Limits added: 6/41 (4 at cost 1); 9/42 (65 at cost 0), 1/43 (87), 1/44 (72), 1/45 (40)
2141	Anti-Tank Regiment			1942: 211->176; 1943: 239->199; 1944: 196->172; 1945: 118->111
2152	Light SU Regiment			1943: 131->109; 1944: 254->212; 1945: 282->235
2161	Separate Tank Battalion			1941: 120->100; 1942: 96->80; 1945: 54->45, 1944: 8->6
2173	AT-Rifle Battalion			Limits added: 1943 (48), 1944 (10)
2189	Mechanized Corps			1942: 10->8; 1943: 16->13, 1944 limit of 14 added
2202	Mechanized Brigade			1942: 31->24, 1943: 56->12 (the vast majority in Mechanized Corps, 3x per Corps)
2207	Motorized Brigade			1942: 35->7; 1943: 31->4; 1944 cap removed
2220	Cavalry Corps				1942: 14->12; 1943: 12->10; 1944: 10->8
2275	Guards Airborne Division		1942: 19->10; 1/44->12/43 Availability; 1945 cap removed
2289	Ski Brigade				1942: 58->48
2314	Rifle Corps				1942: 41->30; 1943: 193->149; 1944: 209->169
2333	Rifle Division				1943: 8->50; 1944: 8->20
2359	Rifle Brigade				1941:183->159; 1942:148->177; 1943: 118->98; 1944: 42->35; 1945: 20->17
2394	Artillery Division			1942: 30->27, 10->11/42 availability; 1944: 44->37, 1->7/44 availability
2402	Rocket Launcher Division		1942: 5->4; 1943: 8->7
2411	Howitzer Brigade			1944: 88->73; 1945: 83->69
2419	Heavy Rocket Brigade			1942: 13->11; 1944: 18->13; 1945: 13->15; 1943 Cap removed
2422	Mortar Brigade				1943: 8->11; 1944: 16->13; 1945: 10->8
2437	Gun Regiment				1941: 203->169; 1942: 388->323; 1943: 282->273; 1945: 163->144
2459	Light Rocket Regiment			1942: 109->70; 1943: 239->113; 1944: 128->108
2464	Mortar Regiment				1942: 122->102; 1943: 205->171; 1945: 180->150; 1944 Cap removed
2472	PVO AA Regiment				1941: 35->29; 1942: 91->78; 1943: 138->115; 1944: 164->137
2475	PVO AAMG Regiment			1942: 10->8; 1943: 32->27
2477	AA Regiment				1942: 148->123; 1943: 265->221; 1944: 270->225; 1945: 252->214
2482	Light Rocket Battalion			1941: 88->73; 1943: 54->59; Added: 1944 (48), 1945 (44)
2486	Mortar Battalion			Add 1941 build limit of 15
2488	PVO AA Battalion			1941: 185->154; 1942: 190->158; 1943: 257->214; 1945: 245->205; 1944 Cap removed
2491	PVO AAMG Battalion			1943: 32->21; Added: 1944 (27)
2518	Flamethrower Company			Made buildable; Added: 9/41 (10), 1942 (20), 6/43 (0)


x Notes regarding Build limits x
2099	Tank Brigade				a large amount in Tank Corps, 3x per Corps
2203	Motorized Brigade			the vast majority in Mechanized Corps, 3x per Corps
2207	Motorized Brigade			the vast majority in Tank Corps, 1x per Corps