Another HOI?

[neuromancer]

ORIGINAL: Baleeted

How so?

Well, two posters pretty much answered the question already. so I don't need to add to that much, except to say:
Bad AI! Horribly Bad!

Additionally the developers at Paradox were complete... jerks. They did not take criticsm even very well at all. I can understand not reacting well to trolls, but they turned reasonable people into trolls with their attitude.

Maybe Matrix spoiled me, but I expected a much higher standard of professionalism both in the product, and from the Dev team.

Nice concept. Great potential. Hideous execution.

I cannot even make mself install it again to give it another try, even with mods (I found it very interesting that two of the modders I liked the best - Bolt and the Federalist - won't have anything to do with HoI any more).

[elmo3]

I bought it the day it came out in the US, ironically the day after Thanksgiving IIRC, and it was a real turkey out of the box. Tried it again after Bolted HOI was available, but when he bailed out I put it away again. Been meaning to try CORE but every time I read the forums there are more unresolved problems so I have't patched it again. I'll give Paradox credit for continuing to support it, but I'll never buy another game from them because they shoved this one out the door at least a year before it was ready.

[Von Rom]

ORIGINAL: neuromancer
(I found it very interesting that two of the modders I liked the best - Bolt and the Federalist - won't have anything to do with HoI any more).

I remember Bolt and the Federalist.

The Federalist had teamed up with someone else and they did a 1939 scenario. It included a ton of modifications (such as placing the Afrika korps in the Middle East) as well as having over 300 new events. It played very nicely.

It is interesting that Paradox doesn't use any of these events in their patches. I'm not sure if Core does or not. But those events sure solved a great deal of the game's problems, including having penalties on the German player for doing unhistorical actions; getting the USA into the war; etc, etc. . .

In many respects HoI hasn't improved on some of things that both Bolt and the Federalist had solved many, many months ago. Go figure [&:]

Cheers!

[kosh]

In my opinion HoI it´s a good game (but not as good as EU2)
The problem in Paradox game it´s that they usually sell betas intead of finished games, but with the latest patch (1.05+ update 1.05c) is quite good. (By the way I waited to 1.04 patch to buy the game!)
And Paradox games are very "modable". The game improves a lot with patch, I like specially CORE
In summary HoI 1.01 wasn´t a good game but 1.05c+CORE 0.71 is in my opinion the best WW2 strategy scale game ever. I enjoyed more HoI than Third Reich, Clash of Steel, A&A or Strategic Command
I'm a Paradox fan (and by the way moderator in its official forumns and webmaster of EU2 & HoI spanish webs)and perhaps I'm a bit subjetive about its games, but if I a Paradox fan it's because I think than some of its games are greats (EU2, HoI, Vicky).
Of course not every of its games are so good (I won´t buy CotN or Two Thrones)
But of course all of this us a mater of tastes and very, very subjetive

[kosh]

ORIGINAL: Von Rom
It is interesting that Paradox doesn't use any of these events in their patches. I'm not sure if Core does or not.

CORE mods includes modified Bolted events
It´s a pitty Paradox doesn´t includes any new events(or almost none) it its new patches. But they include IA files modificatons proposed in mods (for instance 1.05c IA files are based in CORE 0.5 mod)
I read thet the reason new events are not includd in patch are because foreing distributirs company didn´t wan´t to tanslate more ennts for the localiced patches

[Von Rom]

ORIGINAL: kosh

ORIGINAL: Von Rom
It is interesting that Paradox doesn't use any of these events in their patches. I'm not sure if Core does or not.

CORE mods includes modified Bolted events
It´s a pitty Paradox doesn´t includes any new events(or almost none) it its new patches. But they include IA files modificatons proposed in mods (for instance 1.05c IA files are based in CORE 0.5 mod)
I read thet the reason new events are not includd in patch are because foreing distributirs company didn´t wan´t to tanslate more ennts for the localiced patches

It's a pity that all those events aren't used. HoI has a lot of potential that still hasn't been realized yet. The nice thing is that everything can be altered. It's very easy not to allow anyone to have nukes in 1942. And it's also easy to reduce unit movement so that it plays more like a turned-based game (and therefore no need to pause the game).

[tiredoftryingnames]

I shouldn't have to apply all kinds of mods to a game I paid $50 for to get it to work half way decent. I have the latest patch and still don't play it. Yes it's better but still not what I'm looking for when it comes to WW2.

[Von Rom]

ORIGINAL: tiredoftryingnames

I shouldn't have to apply all kinds of mods to a game I paid $50 for to get it to work half way decent. I have the latest patch and still don't play it. Yes it's better but still not what I'm looking for when it comes to WW2.

I agree 100%

EU2 is an excellent game.

But after HoI I won't be buying anymore Paradox games.

[elmo3]

Mods are a good thing and I applaud any designer who makes his game moddable. For example the mods for Space Empires IV helped make it a much better game IMO.

Sooo with all the fuss over HOI I reloaded it, patched it to 1.05C and added CORE 0.7. I'm enjoying it so far as the Soviet Union. Not sure how it will turn out but it might be good enough to hold my interest while waiting for World at War.

[neuromancer]

ORIGINAL: elmo3

Mods are a good thing and I applaud any designer who makes his game moddable. For example the mods for Space Empires IV helped make it a much better game IMO.

No arguement there. But the original game should be good in its own right, and then the mods just to appeal to specific tastes, or extend the replayability, etc. and that is where HoI fails. Even patched up, it is hard to find anyone that likes the unmodded game!


SE4 Gold is a great example. It is a decent enough game in its own right, and well suited to a PBEM game (I've done several, and I'm presently in a four player game with several friends). And this is running an unmodded version. We've added some of our own races, but that is barely a mod in SE4 (just using the same AI files as other races, standard tech, just new ship pictures).

Meanwhile I'm playing a SP version of SE4 Gold, with one of the Star Trek mods in place (had to tweak a couple 'bugs' in the mod files, but nothing major).

I think that is the most enjoyable thing about SE4, it gives you the space empire frame work, and then you can mod it to be Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5, or whatever else lights your fire.

Sooo with all the fuss over HOI I reloaded it, patched it to 1.05C and added CORE 0.7. I'm enjoying it so far as the Soviet Union. Not sure how it will turn out but it might be good enough to hold my interest while waiting for World at War.

I've downloaded those. Maybe I should give them a try.


I guess I can hate Paradox without hating the game, as long as the game is okay.

At least they aren't as bad as DEREK SMART, the ego that freak of nature has is amazing. And probably the least deseved in the known universe. I think with him it is almost impossible to have anything to do with "Battlecruiser Revisited - And Still Sucks" without having to battle through the miasma of his ego.

I had considered picking up one of the various Battlecruiser games until I read about the various insane antics of Mr. Smart (there is an ironic name if I've ever heard one), and promptly decided that I couldn't make myself have anything to do with anything he has touched.


But while I think Paradox are a bunch of hacks that sell their software long before it is ready (6 months to a year), and then get pissy when people point it out, at least they don't spread accross the net like a Virus attacking everyone who ever says anything bad about them or their games.


(incidentally, I'm testing a theory)

[elmo3]

Agreed that SE4 can stand on it's own and HOI can't.

Never heard of Mr. Smart but maybe we will hear from him if your theory (or what I'm guessing is your theory) turns out to be true.

[neuromancer]

ORIGINAL: elmo3
Never heard of Mr. Smart but maybe we will hear from him if your theory (or what I'm guessing is your theory) turns out to be true.

Ha ha ha ha!!

Very astute, very astute.

Yes, there is a theory that he uses a search engine or a robot to find referances to his own name, and then goes to find out if it is being taken in vain. I've never dealt with him, even by email, but what I have read - from him and about him - makes him a major target of ridicule by anyone that knows about him. He recently threatened a site with legal action because of a parody review they wrote about one of his games, and about him at the same time.

Which is how he came into my mind.

Derek Smart is a legend in his own mind. He always places 'PHD' behind his name, despite the fact that no one is sure what exactly he has a PhD in, or where it is from. He runs around threatening lawsuits over the most trivial of matters. He has the distinction of being involved in the longest running flame war on the internet (apparently started in - IIRC - 1996 and still going 8 years later).

And, oh yeah. He wrote a computer game.

In theory all the flaming and fighting is over this computer game - now an in its fifth (?) version (under a new name, first release and the start of the flame war was around '96) - but in truth it is about his ego. If he was half as smart as he thinks he is, he would know better than to get involved in a flame war. I read portions of the main one, and I couldn't really decide who was more pathetic, the guys flaming him ('baiting' would be the more accurate term), or him for taking the bait, and then absolutely refusing to walk away from it.

That is apparently how it has lasted this long, he absolutely won't drop it. His opponents cycle in and out, pick up the thread and carry it on, and he just keeps on flaming right back.

If he had spent as much time and effort working on his game as he apparently does searching the net for fights, and carrying on those fights, his game would be as good as he says it is/ will be (depending upon whether it is before or after a release - if its after the release, it 'will be perfect' just as soon as he can finish it).

Anyway, I've decided that he cannot possibly be so pathetic as to come here and flame me just for saying some nasty things about him, and that is also not the sort of crap the good folks at Matrix need on the forums, so I'm explaining myself. In the unlikely event he did come here, he should hopefuly read this and go away without proving himself a jack ass.


So with that, I've moved far enough away from the topic that I think I should shoot myself and let the real topic - GG WaW, and whether it is a rehash of HoI - be discussed some more.

Although I think that topic is pretty much dead too.

BANG!!!!

[wodin]

HOI should never have been done in real time.

That was my biggest complaint which could never be fixed.

Yeah there is a pause button but when a game is made to be turn based the whole dynamic of the game is different.

So no matter how many mods came out which made it so much better I still couldnt get to grips with it.

Such a shame.

But luckly we have this one in the making which could be exactly what weve all been looking for.

[Tactics]

ORIGINAL: wodin

HOI should never have been done in real time.

That was my biggest complaint which could never be fixed.

Very strange. HOI was not real time it was continous time. You know, slow it down, speed it up, pause it. If that was your biggest complaint, you have a pretty meager list. HOI seemed like "advanced risk". I didnt love the game, but it was "OK".

[wodin]

Beg your pardon but I think you know what I meant.

I dont think it is a meager problem at all.

It a dirty great big one which Ive seen many others complain about aswell.

Speed it up or slow it down whatever it still means it isnt turn based.

And for a game like this then that is a big problem.

I just feel the game didnt work well at all and would have been far better if it was developed with turn based as its method of play.

No need to be funny[:-]

[Cheesehead]

I was turned off by continuous time, also. But my biggest complaint was that you couldn't play one whole side or the other (Axis or Allies). Maybe I'm a control freak, but I don't like to share decision making with a computer AI. I never bothered with any of the patches. Did they ever fix this "problem?"

[lonewulf]

HOI? I thought it was at least was a good game. It let you control any country and take it where you wanted. I love that aspect. Few things bugged me though. First i hate having an end time..above it said ther will be a 1945 cut off....i feel this is horrible! If you are in control of a country...you decide how far you will go..or how fast you are defeated. Leave it up to teh gamer! Second was give user options for gameplay. In HOI sometimes i wanted a more realistic game where as allies you have to use more diplomacy because you cant Declare war on evryone. Sometimes i wants just a fun game..ie USA taking over everything. Let the player custimize the options like decent and such. Some people might not find it fun to take say little belgian and make her a power, but some do. Leave everything open to teh player. I want a realistic game, but give the player some control over things. I loved trying to take a small power in HOI and wield them into a force, but due to decent this was limited. Just my 2 cents...HOI wasnt the best (by far) but at least it had some really good things too
LK

[neuromancer]

HoI had great potential, and I appreciate what they were tryoing to do. But the execution sucked.

[YohanTM2]

ORIGINAL: neuromancer

...and I appreciate what they were tryoing to do. But the execution sucked.

My brother said the same thing to my sister-in-law

[Jacko]

This game would be even more appealing to me if the 'past 1945' option for Axis forces is included. I strongly advise you to consider this carefully, since it is the stuff every wargamer dreams off.