Very hard difficulty A.I.

[Admiral Scott]

Exactly what advantages does the A.I. get on very hard difficulty?
I know it gets supply help on hard setting and some combat help on very hard from what I have read, but what exactly?

[PaxMondo]

Let me first state that I am almost exclusively an AI player. Life hasn't allowed me to play many PBEM games.

We've never been told definitively what the AI can and does do that I know of. However, various hints have been shared and a couple of clear statements have been made.

It doesn't "cheat" per se. What it does do is accomplish what a good player would normally do, but which it doesn't actually have the ability to do. Examples follow.

It can move supply to islands. The AI can't inherently create supply TF's to keep islands in supply. So, the AI in Hard and VH levels can "move" supply. Some players call this a "cheat". AI players refer to this as "unseen supply TF's". Note that supply must be available to the AI player somewhere, it isn't created.

It can move units to accomplish assigned tasks. The AI cannot plan invasions, meaning it cannot easily start to gather units weeks in advance of an operation, therefore it is able to move units that are not in view of the opponent. Again, some players call this a cheat. AI players refer to this as "poor intel on enemy unit locations" or "successful enemy maschirova of unit locations". Again, units must be on the map somewhere, they are not created.

If you think about how good players play, then you can likely deduce other things that the AI is able to do. In all cases, it doesn't "cheat", but it has been given the ability to accomplish what a good player would do.

Both of these examples suggest that inherently the AI can play the allies better on higher AI settings. The allies have abundant supply and units. The counter to this is that the AI plays defense better as that doesn't rely as much on scripts, suggesting that it can play the IJ better in mid and late game. For offensive AI, there has to be a script to fire. That means the AI creator has to have foreseen that need under those conditions. This is why the offensive AI tends to be best early in the scenario, and less so later. It is so difficult to predict how the game could evolve and create scripts for those contingencies.

To say Andy Mac is genius/hero for the AI players is an understatement. All HAIL Andy Mac!!!

[PaxMondo]

I should also add that this has been previously discussed in detail ad nauseum on a number of occasions. Search the forum here and you should find numerous threads with loads more examples.

[btd64]

Hi Pax, Its been a while. How are you feeling. You can PM me or message me on the Slack thread....GP

[Kull]

Glad to see you back Pax!!!

[Admiral Scott]

Thanks Pax. I haven't played this game in 13 years. I gave up on it because the Jap A.I. was so terrible on historical level back then. Has the Jap A.I. improved much in 13 years? What's the state of this game now, being close to its final patch?
Is the final patch due out in January 2024?

[btd64]

Thanks Pax. I haven't played this game in 13 years. I gave up on it because the Jap A.I. was so terrible on historical level back then. Has the Jap A.I. improved much in 13 years? What's the state of this game now, being close to its final patch?
Is the final patch due out in January 2024?

Andy has put out some AI improvements. Yes we are shooting for the middle of January for the second update. Andy's AI improvements are included....GP

[Platoonist]

Thanks Pax. I haven't played this game in 13 years. I gave up on it because the Jap A.I. was so terrible on historical level back then. Has the Jap A.I. improved much in 13 years? What's the state of this game now, being close to its final patch?
Is the final patch due out in January 2024?

The Japanese AI has improved a little. But it can still be routinely broken by 1942 unless the Allies plays it rather conservatively. It also still sends out suicidal bombing missions which it can only support because apparently it never runs out of planes regardless of production. I've shot down almost 4,000 Betty bombers in my current game with last year's Beta and they just keep inexhaustibly coming.

However, it's important to remember that even a human player has a tough time playing Japan well given the Allies' material advantages and Japan's historical burdens. To expect an AI to shine in this regard is probably impossible.

Yes, the final patch has been announced as arriving in January.

[Admiral Scott]

Thanks for the replies guys. I guess I will start a game against the A.I. on very hard now, and re familiarize myself with the game until the patch comes out. Will I have to start over after the patch is released?

[RangerJoe]

Thanks for the replies guys. I guess I will start a game against the A.I. on very hard now, and re familiarize myself with the game until the patch comes out. Will I have to start over after the patch is released?

If you are just switching the .exe file it should not make a difference.

[RangerJoe]

It is good to hear from you Pax. I hope that you are doing well.

Everyone here please have a safe weekend and a Merry Christmas!

[btd64]

Thanks for the replies guys. I guess I will start a game against the A.I. on very hard now, and re familiarize myself with the game until the patch comes out. Will I have to start over after the patch is released?

Because the new update was so different you needed to install the game with the update in its own fresh install. I will be better able to tell you about this when I see the new update in January....GP

[PaxMondo]

Btd64/Kull/RangerJoe:

Thanks guys. Dealing with life stuff. Baby steps.

Looking forward to the update. ... I can't wait to see Andy Mac's new AI scripts.

[PaxMondo]

Thanks for the replies guys. I guess I will start a game against the A.I. on very hard now, and re familiarize myself with the game until the patch comes out. Will I have to start over after the patch is released?

If you find some of my old discussions on this topic you will find how I get the AI to work quite well (within reason, as in keeping it from blowing up). I've gotten into '44 as the IJ several times, even as deep as '45.

[Yaab]

Thanks for the replies guys. I guess I will start a game against the A.I. on very hard now, and re familiarize myself with the game until the patch comes out. Will I have to start over after the patch is released?

I always play as the Allies against the Jap AI on Normal difficulty

I prop up the Jap AI by three house-rules that limit the Allies:

1) non-universal supply
2) 2E or 4E bombers cannot bomb frontline hexes.
3) no fuel as cargo in xAKs

This way I get quite an enjoyable game which, I think, mimics historical limitations the Allies faced in the PTO

[Platoonist]

It can move supply to islands. The AI can't inherently create supply TF's to keep islands in supply. So, the AI in Hard and VH levels can "move" supply. Some players call this a "cheat". AI players refer to this as "unseen supply TF's". Note that supply must be available to the AI player somewhere, it isn't created.

Makes sense for the Japanese in an abstract way. They exploited the hordes of small craft native to Southeast Asia and the Pacific in a bid to keep their supply lines open under submarine and air blockade. They hired or impressed the kisties and Tavoy schooners of Burma, the tongkangs, Tamil lighters, and twakows of Malaya, and the praus, trading ketches and lambo sloops of the east Indies. The light wooden construction of such craft rendered them extremely vulnerable even to small arms fire, but in many cases they probably simply went unnoticed as part of the local seascape.

[Chris21wen]

Just want to throw in this. Playing 26b as Japan on very hard. Here's the US and Phillipine fighter pools on Jan 23, a month and a half after the start. Please discuss.

Capture.JPG (58.8 KiB) Viewed 1718 times

[RangerJoe]

Just want to throw in this. Playing 26b as Japan on very hard. Here's the US and Phillipine fighter pools on Jan 23, a month and a half after the start. Please discuss.
Capture.JPG

The P-40B is a better defense fighter than the P-40E although with no drop tanks. Use some of the lower quality fighters as trainers, there was no need to swap them out for P-39s and/or P-40Es. The P-39 can be more effective that the P-40E if properly used. The P-38E should have been left in the training units, there is a way to get them out of those units without exchanging them.

[Arkham]

If the AI can just move supply without TFs being created, does that invalidate the 'wither on the vine' strategy of island hopping?

Can the AI can 'just move' supplies to Rabaul, even if I've established myself north of there and have the ocean locked down where realistically no supply convoy would be able to get through? Would that mean that the AI can keep replacing aircraft from supply that somehow appears?

[RangerJoe]

If the AI can just move supply without TFs being created, does that invalidate the 'wither on the vine' strategy of island hopping?

Can the AI can 'just move' supplies to Rabaul, even if I've established myself north of there and have the ocean locked down where realistically no supply convoy would be able to get through? Would that mean that the AI can keep replacing aircraft from supply that somehow appears?

No, it does not. Those are excellent targets for live bombardment and bombing training. When there is no longer AA fire, you can presume that there is either no AA weapons left or supplies. When you see devices being destroyed and especially at an increasing ratio, then you know that there is not sufficient supplies to bring those disabled devices back to useful purposes. Then you can "mop up" with land forces if you want to. That could and would be a use for Allied Fast Transport invasions or paratroopers dropping in for a visit since the paratroopers won't really need preparation points for that target. There are other advantages to using paratroopers as well.