Am I misunderstanding supply, or is this just a tough scenario?

[CaptainKoloth]

Hello everyone:

I'm still learning the ins and outs of TOAW. I'm struggling with supply on a scenario and wondering if it's just a tough scenario design or if there's something deeper I'm missing.

Specifically I'm playing Double Eagle 3.4, the Russo-Japanese war, as Japan. In this scenario, there is one supply point at the port at Chemulpo and one at Zhuanghe- and that's it (outside of Japan itself). It doesn't seem possible, even with repaired rail, high supply on, and supply units, to keep your units even remotely supplied on this giant map with just those two supply points. Is there some other game mechanic I'm missing?

I realize keeping troops supplied in the real Russo-Japanese war was really, really hard, but I'm puzzled by how to conquer this map with such limited sources of supply. Am I expected to be rotating my forces by sea in and out of faraway supply points for resupply? Is there anything else I can do by land? I am flummoxed.

[larryfulkerson]

You may want to mod that scenario with as many supply points as you feel you're going to need. And don't forget
to add some RR engineers as well. They may come in handy.

165M dollars each.jpg (138.57 KiB) Viewed 618 times

[rhinobones]

Specifically I'm playing Double Eagle 3.4, the Russo-Japanese war, as Japan. In this scenario, there is one supply point at the port at Chemulpo and one at Zhuanghe- and that's it (outside of Japan itself). It doesn't seem possible, even with repaired rail, high supply on, and supply units, to keep your units even remotely supplied on this giant map with just those two supply points. Is there some other game mechanic I'm missing?

There are events activated by Japanese occupation of designated hexes. These additional supply points will not totally solve the Japanese logistics problem, but they will help to mitigate the lack of supply.
Unfortunately, this critical information is not documented in the briefing.

FYI. The attached screenshot is taken from the gam file loaded in the TOAWWXML editor. By following the event path, you can determine the hexes Japan needs to occupy and the Victory Point cost of deploying supply depots.

Regards, RhinoBones

Supply Point 1 Events.JPG (53.75 KiB) Viewed 596 times

[Spale69]

Hi,

I am also the beginner in TOAW, so I hope I can help at least a bit. I took a look at this scenario in the editor. Generally, the initial force stock supply level (for both of them) is just 5 out of 100 possible. You can try making your own custom version of the scenario by modifying this, though I am not sure how much that would help on the mainland w/o proper supply points.

When talking about modifications, it is also possible to change general (global) supply cost of movement rate from the Edit menu (currently defaul 100, can be 0 -999).

Than, there are hundreds of events. None of them documented in the scenario itself. For example, one of them is Theater option to establish a supply depot at Zhuanghe (the one you mentioned). That is the event #269. What I see is that there are at least 6 other such "establish supply depot..." theater options that are conditionally unlocked (and visible of course only via Theater Options selection in-game). Please take a look at the list of events...there are also a lot of them to change already existing supply levels. Just first sort the list by event effect...than they are better grouped. But to understand when and what will happen, you will have to read in the manual about scenario editing and events.

To be honest, I hate when there is abs. no documentation about things that may happen. I tried searching quickly the Net, but found nothing more in-depth about about this scenario. Maybe more experienced people here in the forum who played this can point you in some directions. This way, you are left to check useful events list by yourself and think of some strategies and ponder on what the scenario designer had in mind with lacking supplies. Beware...there are really a lot of them! It is a whole, huge network of events inside that is hard to track.

I find it a pitty that a game, actually conflict simulator as TOAW, which gives so many opportunites, is sometimes ruined for player because of lack of scenario documentation.

I myself try to learn all this by making my own small scenario experiments and playing simple, small things...especially when there are little or no events (for now;).

Cheers!

[Spale69]

Ahhh...I posted my text, just to see Rhinobones reply!



Actually, I never heard of that nice event editor he mentioned! Good to know! I was aware only about the default built-in TOAW editor thing!

[CaptainKoloth]

Really helpful guys, thank you. Yes it's baffling that such a critical element of the scenario is hidden from view and not documented. Especially since the designer took so much time to create all these events in the first place, it's not like writing a line in the briefing that supply points will be established at ports X and Y when captured would have been particularly burdensome, nor is it information that in real life would have been hidden from the commanders.

[Spale69]

Really helpful guys, thank you. Yes it's baffling that such a critical element of the scenario is hidden from view and not documented. Especially since the designer took so much time to create all these events in the first place,

Well, it is up to the scenario creator to add the necessary information.

As a matter of fact, if you decide to pursue this further, you will probably have your own remarks and comments. So maybe it would be good to put them some place here in the forum as a guide for future players. It is also possible to re-pack the scenario into new version with your added comments. If everyone would do those things, you would already be well informed

[rhinobones]

I myself try to learn all this by making my own small scenario experiments and playing simple, small things...especially when there are little or no events (for now;).

Good to hear that you have an interest in building scenarios. Look forward to seeing your work.
As for the scenario documentation, we all know it’s lacking but we also know how to deal with the problem. Enough said.

The author of the scenario happens to be one of the premier scenario designers from the days of the old corps. He hasn’t been around for quite a long time so I suspect he has moved on to other projects. Fortunately, we still have his work to enjoy.

The scenario is 80 turns long so there is no need to immediately attack Port Arthur. First eliminate the Russian navy and then spend 50-60 turns building a supply line. The Russians will be there waiting for you.

Regards, RhinoBones

[kutaycosar]

I myself try to learn all this by making my own small scenario experiments and playing simple, small things...especially when there are little or no events (for now;).

Good to hear that you have an interest in building scenarios. Look forward to seeing your work.
As for the scenario documentation, we all know it’s lacking but we also know how to deal with the problem. Enough said.

The author of the scenario happens to be one of the premier scenario designers from the days of the old corps. He hasn’t been around for quite a long time so I suspect he has moved on to other projects. Fortunately, we still have his work to enjoy.

The scenario is 80 turns long so there is no need to immediately attack Port Arthur. First eliminate the Russian navy and then spend 50-60 turns building a supply line. The Russians will be there waiting for you.

Regards, RhinoBones

my i ask where we can find this magical event editor(toawxml?) and "gam" file? you mean src?

[Spale69]

my i ask where we can find this magical event editor(toawxml?) and "gam" file? you mean src?

I googled it here:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... ?p=4369649

Apparently was a little project by 76mm but nothing new in last few yrs.

[kutaycosar]

my i ask where we can find this magical event editor(toawxml?) and "gam" file? you mean src?

I googled it here:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... ?p=4369649

Apparently was a little project by 76mm but nothing new in last few yrs.

Thanks, I think it would be good enough to check events that weren't mentioned in the scenario's manual.