Very hard difficulty A.I.

[Chris21wen]

26b is the version, the scenario is #1.

This is what the US starts with. There is some considerable difference in numbers after 6 weeks, most notably the 100 P-38E which should not be due until May 42. There is no difference in production rates or available dates so the AI must be able to alter the numbers directly.

Capture.JPG (63.98 KiB) Viewed 1529 times

[BBfanboy]

Most new devices have a small pool of "advanced production or prototypes" that shows up months prior to regular production. The P-38Es are an example of that. The Provisional GMC unit in the Philippines is an example of a prototype that will later be produced as the Priest. No more Provisional GMC vehicles will be produced.

[BBfanboy]

Are you saying that changing difficulty levels using the "P" key will change force pool levels? Even in the middle of an ongoing game?

As far as I can see, yes.

Well, I don't know what scen 26b is, so I have no idea what the starting pools are. But I'm not aware that the AI level has any impact upon pools outside of normal production and upgrade paths. I can also state that I have never seen the AI magically create any devices that are not already in the game.

So, what you need to do is in 26b, take a look at the TOTAL devices (like P-40b) that start in game. That means you have to tally all units in all air groups in addition to the pool. Then do the same on your date in Jan 42. I've never seen them not tie out (well, within 1 or 2). Remember that the AI can, and does, perfom upgrades based upon the progression provided by the scen developer. The catch is that it won't always do them when it should.

PS: tracker is a great help with this as you can create CSV files for Jan 42 to compare to the starting Dec 41 CSV files.

Post your findings here. very interested to see them.

One of the things to know about production is that the numbers per month represent the average but die rolls determine the actual amount. That is why there is a variance (usually small) in the tally over time.

[RangerJoe]

Most new devices have a small pool of "advanced production or prototypes" that shows up months prior to regular production. The P-38Es are an example of that. The Provisional GMC unit in the Philippines is an example of a prototype that will later be produced as the Priest. No more Provisional GMC vehicles will be produced.

Incorrect my friend from Big Canada Land. The GMC was the early tank destroyer with a 75mm cannon mounted for firing on a halftracked vehicle. It was also used for direct fire support as well but not for indirect fire support. The Priest was the M7 was a 105mm howitzer mounted on the M4 Sherman chassis with a M2HB 50 caliber machine gun mounted in what looks like a pulpit which is how it got the name of "Priest" . . .

[Chris21wen]

Most new devices have a small pool of "advanced production or prototypes" that shows up months prior to regular production. The P-38Es are an example of that. The Provisional GMC unit in the Philippines is an example of a prototype that will later be produced as the Priest. No more Provisional GMC vehicles will be produced.

It might be the case for some devices, but not here, the numbers are too big.

I do agree that production varies somewhat but the variance is based on the production rates specified and I have never experienced it above the rate, only lower.

Here's the state of the US fighters on 28th Jan 42, same scenario played on normal. Losses are similar but pool and used aircraft are significantly larger and no P-38e.

Capture.JPG (65.06 KiB) Viewed 1412 times

[PaxMondo]

26b is the version, the scenario is #1.

This is what the US starts with. There is some considerable difference in numbers after 6 weeks, most notably the 100 P-38E which should not be due until May 42. There is no difference in production rates or available dates so the AI must be able to alter the numbers directly.

Capture.JPG

Seriously?

This is NOT the tally of any aircraft. This is just the pool. You MUST include also all of the a/c in groups at each time that you want to compare. You can do it manually, but it is far easier to drop the CSV's from Tracker. Until you do this, you do NOT have the data to make any statement about the aircraft inventories.

[PaxMondo]

I'm still running 1109r9, so your results may vary.

scen 1
choosing fixed reinforcement
VH AI
both computer

starting allied P-38E: 43 a/c in 5 a/g:

Code: Select all

UnitNumber	Name	AircraftType	LocationID	ReadyCraft	DamagedCraft	Delay
4025	51st PG/25th PS	330		507		2		2		411206
4027	1st PG/27th PS	330		615		12		0		411206
4046	14th PG/48th PS	330		507		2		3		411206
4078	1st PG/94th PS	330		615		20		0		411206
4308	1st PG/HqS	330		615		2		0		411206

I then ran 28 turns ... (wanted to be sure to cross into the new year (42)) ...
Pool:

pool.jpg (85.98 KiB) Viewed 1348 times

Groups:

groups.jpg (120.01 KiB) Viewed 1348 times

All looks ok. So, not able to re-produce your issue.

I have to add that in the 1000's of turns I have played AI, when I have seen you type of result, (and I have) I have attributed it to memory leaks. The proof is: try to re-produce it. If you can't, then memory leak.

[Chris21wen]

26b is the version, the scenario is #1.

This is what the US starts with. There is some considerable difference in numbers after 6 weeks, most notably the 100 P-38E which should not be due until May 42. There is no difference in production rates or available dates so the AI must be able to alter the numbers directly.

Capture.JPG

Seriously?

This is NOT the tally of any aircraft. This is just the pool. You MUST include also all of the a/c in groups at each time that you want to compare. You can do it manually, but it is far easier to drop the CSV's from Tracker. Until you do this, you do NOT have the data to make any statement about the aircraft inventories.

The US starts with 49 P-38e in 5 air groups, all but 4 ac are in units that have to be permanently disbanded, hence if done would not be sent back to the pool. I don't don't think the AI plays by those rules so it might be able to. Lets assume it can and is dumb enough to do so that woul be 49 P-38e in the pool but that doesn't account for the 129 ac (pool+used)? Even if it swapped the ac for something else where did it get the those ac from? Further ac returned to the pool are indicated in the pool list by a -figure in the used column so it should say -49 if they where sent back. It does it says 29.

By the way I don't have a problem with this I was pointing out that it's not just supply that a very hard AI has an advantage off but the firures are clear, so yes I am serious about the figures.

[Chris21wen]

I have to add that in the 1000's of turns I have played AI, when I have seen you type of result, (and I have) I have attributed it to memory leaks. The proof is: try to re-produce it. If you can't, then memory leak.

Big memory leak.

[Alpha77]

I think you missed the point. Look at the aircraft numbers.

"AI" gets planes from "thin air".

However I noted this supply is NOT endless, I am in 3/43 and some plane types are depleted now (for the AI). AI also ofc does not withdraw any ships or units. BUT it cannot update these units (eg. an air unit with P40E which is set to withdraw and is then overdue can only use these older planes! Even if newer ones are available - which they are always..cause of the "thin air" thingie )

The AI also seems to get free new squads... eg. this is easy to see w/ the Canadians and NZ´lers. I do not have the game open but eg. both these countries got 200(or so) updated 43 squads "for free".. so I guess also bigger nations might get them (but the US is not so easy to track). And I fiddled around w/ replacement numbers for the AI when it does not even abide to these numbers (stupid me ). I BELIEVE that strangely enough the AI "only" gets free new squads but not tanks for example...this is very easy to test for anyone u need to take a peek at at the AI side ofc from time to time - AND write down the numbers.

[Alpha77]

The Provisional GMC unit in the Philippines is an example of a prototype that will later be produced as the Priest. No more Provisional GMC vehicles will be produced.

Wrong The unit is "provisional" NOT the vehicles themselves, these are 75mm halftracks btw. and not priests. These were also used as 1st US army "tank destroyers" in NA, here a pic:;

http://www.historyofwar.org/Pictures/pi ... frica.html

"The T12 pilot vehicles were the first American tank destroyers to see combat. In November 1941 the US Army began to form a Provisional Tank Group in the Philippines. This was equipped with the M3 light tank and with 50 of the 86 pilot models of the T12. These vehicles were sent to the Philippines in November-December 1941 and formed into three battalions in the Provisional Field Artillery Brigade. There were very few encounters between the new tank destroyers and Japanese tanks and instead they were used as mobile artillery, providing direct fire to support the rearguard during the retreat to Bataan and during the fighting in the Bataan peninsula. As with the light tanks, some of the T12s were captured and later used against the Americans when they returned to the Philippines."

The HT´s will upgrade to Priest yes (in 43 sometime the Priests appear) I may be nickpicking (sp?) here tho...but Priest is a quite different beast

I guess ur P38 explaination was also wrong, cause the AI gets new planes (from nothing)
I see someone posted this already (Yaab quoting Aurorus)

EDIT!! The 75mm HTs in this case may count as anti tank, then ofc it will not update to Priest but to M10 / M18

EDIT2, I checked and one of the most obvious examples of the plane presents: The US army should get 48 B17F (2x24) but the AI got at least 220 of these

[Yaab]

Alpha77, this may interest you:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 7#p5056357

[Alpha77]

So here only 3 pics without commentary as it should be clear (from turn 08 March 43)

canso.jpg (22.97 KiB) Viewed 968 times

can inf.jpg (13.18 KiB) Viewed 968 times

canso 2.jpg (51.16 KiB) Viewed 968 times

[BBfanboy]

Well the Infantry squads upgrading involves existing squads going into the pool and being upgraded to the next version - i.e. when there are enough old squads in the pool they get their new TOE weapons and replace the old squads in the unit taking squad upgrades. In turn, that unit donates its own old squads to start the cycle again. So this is not production -it's a refurbishment of existing devices (squads).

Could it be that the game uses returned PBY-4 and PBY-5s (from US units upgrading to PBY-5A) and converts those returned aircraft to Canso As and Catalina Is for Commonwealth countries?
That would reflect what happened IRL - although it was Commonwealth plants doing the conversion to their own standards.

[Zeckke]

the important to know is that the AI VHD task forces, dont need fuel. never go to refuel

[Sardaukar]

I am not big fan of Very Hard difficulty, since AI gets also advantages in combat, not only in logistics.

[morphin]

It seems better to leave at hard settings and give the A.I. more Stuff ?

[Sardaukar]

It seems better to leave at hard settings and give the A.I. more Stuff ?

That's what I do.

I don't want "dice to be loaded" in addition in combat calculations. Though I am not entirely sure what manual means with
» Very Hard – Computer is given some logistical and combat advantages. Manual does not say what those combat advantages are...

Manual also says: After playing one or two games, experienced War in the Pacific, Admiral’s Edition™ players
should play at the Hard level of difficulty.

[PaxMondo]

I am not big fan of Very Hard difficulty, since AI gets also advantages in combat, not only in logistics.

If you don't play at VH, you have an unfair advantage in combat. This advantage is referred to as "leaders". The AI does not know how to optimize leaders, players can. So, at every level below VH, the player has a potentially huge advantage in combat.

OR, you can play at lesser difficulty levels, but then to be fair you should not change ANY leader of any unit.

Caveat: a scenario designer can optimize these from the start. However, the standard scenarios use the historical leaders, and we all know how many of them need to be changed. Granted, some are good, but there are many that are just atrocious. Further, even in the standard scenarios, many new units get leaders randomly drawn with the obvious miss match in desired characteristics. Who hasn't seen an Air=+60 commanding a cargo ship?

Just saying ...

[Admiral Scott]

Does the A.I. have better overall leaders playing as the Japanese, than the A.I. playing as the allies?