Fortress Moscow surrounded. Now what? (vs AI)

[Champagne]

Surrounded Moscow includes two hexes of Level 4 Forts. Direct ground assault can't take either hex. It is December 1943.

Air Superiority Directive: Will that halt the Soviet supply drops?

Air Interdiction: Same question

Ground Attack: Will bombing the Moscow hexes stop the Soviet supply drops?

How long can Surrounded Moscow hold out?

Thanks.

[Jango32]

Since air supply is literally differently coded from the air phase, it's hard to say. You can certainly try to run air superiority to increase the chance to intercept but it's not guaranteed to work. Anything else air-wise is useless.

Just assemble a lot of infantry divisions with high morale & experience, pack them with directly attached pioneers, give them good corps HQ leaders with a ton of artillery, ensure the corps HQs are in the same army and start the assaults.

[Champagne]

Thanks, Jango.

That is not encouraging information. IMHO this in an issue that development of the game system should address.

[Wild]

I tried to starve Moscow out before. If I recall correctly it took 4 or 5 months. I would follow Jango's advice. Also don't forget to use the Super Heavy artillery.

[Champagne]

4 or 5 months? Bleeding Hell.

[Rosseau]

I can sympathize with the OP, but look what happened at Leningrad, historically. This is Moscow, after all.

Anyway, good luck to you!

[tm1]

Surrounded Moscow includes two hexes of Level 4 Forts. Direct ground assault can't take either hex. It is December 1943.

Air Superiority Directive: Will that halt the Soviet supply drops?

Air Interdiction: Same question

Ground Attack: Will bombing the Moscow hexes stop the Soviet supply drops?

How long can Surrounded Moscow hold out?

Thanks.

Well your playing the AI , Dec 1943 your now playing the long game. You have past the point of no return if the game was sudden death as you have no more Axis win dates. You have to think now for Jan 1945 which you must take as much Soviet territory including including Victory point cities, dig in and hold them for as long as possible throughout 1944.

Use minimal troops to cover Moscow including one sitting unit right on Stalin's doorstep, push East capturing towns and air bases, the further away Red Air forces are from Moscow the less Chance it will resupply the city from the air.

Yes Moscow will fall and it may take anywhere from 3 to 6 months, but if your hell bent on taking the city sooner you need to first take out the suburbs so you don't have to attack across rivers and not get penalised.

Also Moscow is bristling with Flak units aerial bombing is going come with a price.

good luck

[Champagne]

Yes, thanks, I'm playing the "No Early End" Grand Campaign scenario.

I thought of an idea - build Fort Zones around Moscow and put flak units in the Zones. I'll be watching whether these flak units can take out the Soviet Air Supply.

[Joel Billings]

Airfields between you and the incoming transports should help in shooting them down. Likely you've already won, as it's extremely unlikely in one year the Soviet side can push back far enough from east of Moscow to stave off the 1 January 1945 victory check.

[Champagne]

Thanks, Joel.

This is just a practice game. I started it on Easy setting. Then mid-way through the First Winter, I changed the morale levels to Normal, except for the Axis Minor Allies - I kept a slight morale bonus for them.

[Champagne]

Likely you've already won, as it's extremely unlikely in one year the Soviet side can push back far enough from east of Moscow to stave off the 1 January 1945 victory check.

If the Western Allies have captured a hex of Germany proper, doesn't the game continue past the 1 Jan 45 victory check in a No Early Ending Grand Campaign?

[Joel Billings]

You're right, I had forgotten about that. But given your situation, you can send more forces to the west and slow up the Allies.

[Champagne]

Good idea.

[Champagne]

Moscow falls on 4 Jun 44 turn after being surrounded on 31 Oct 43 turn. I'm using the Air AI Assist, so, I was never able to surround the besieged city with Luftwaffe air bases. The Soviet Air Supply chain was unstoppable.

Then, suddenly and for no apparent reason, the Soviet air supply flights slacked off about 4 turns before Moscow fell to a final ground assault. Then for the final two turns, there were no Soviet air supply flights at all. That's what alerted me to gather an assault force of six or so Divisions. I wanted to take advantage of the situation. Both of the surrounded Moscow hexes succumbed to one attack each. The defenders had plenty of ammo but no supplies.

What caused the Soviet Air Supply flights to halt? I don't know. Maybe somebody can suggest the answer. The game situation at the time was that I was just a few turns away from completing a long Railway network that bypasses Moscow. This network runs from Ryazhsk to Ryazan to Vladimir. Once this Rail network was built up, probably the AI Luftwaffe would establish air bases East of Moscow and supplied by the Vladimir network.

Maybe the Soviet AI player calculated that future Air Supply flights would soon be halted and discontinued the futile flights?

I wish I knew.

Main point is: Moscow is a tough nut, even when surrounded. The only way to stop the Soviet Air Supply flights to Moscow seems to be for the human Axis player to complete that Vladimir Railroad network. Also, if some Luftwaffe air bases can be established East of surrounded Moscow, that will probably cause the Soviet Air Supply flights to halt.

[Jango32]

I think it took that long primarily because you relied on AI air assist.

[Champagne]

Probably so.

I tried to manually move an AOG with Fighters to air bases East of Moscow. I turned OFF Air Assist and moved the AOG. When I hit the Execute Air button my move did not happen.

I need to learn more about how to use Air Assist along with manual input. I know how to manually use Air Supply flights and Naval Patrol Interdiction, but those can be executed purely within the Air Assist mode.

I need to learn how to turn OFF Air Assist, then move an AOG to the East of Moscow, then turn Air Assist back ON later. But, maybe the Air Assist would simply move the AOG's base back West of Moscow when I turn it back on?

Thanks.

[Jango32]

You really don't need to fiddle with the air forces a lot in this game, especially against AI. For Axis it's recon here, air superiority there, naval patrol in 3, maybe 4 locations: Ventspils, Odessa, Sevastopol, maybe Leningrad. That's it.

Air supply is good to get a handle on, though. But that's arguably pretty straightforward.

[Champagne]

I have learned that what you write here is true. I've read all of your posts on this forum and they have been very helpful. I thank you for that.