1328.14/15 - Units Not Engaging Correctly

[TempestII]

For some reason, units don't seem to be engaging how one would expect, especially Missions. I tested out the attached scenario in legacy 1307.19 where the missile-armed MVs fired all of their weapons at Guam in a manner one would expect - a full barrage against Andersen AFB.
I then upgraded to 1328.14 and .15, and used the exact same scen without changing WRA, ROE or anything else (except the scen name). In the latest versions, the MVs fire 1 or 2 missiles at targets on Guam in a piecemeal fashion, never launching a barrage of weapons, unlike in legacy CMO. This can be "fixed" by using Manual Weapons Allocation, but obviously that doesn't help the AI side.
The scenarios are attached below; I can provide a video if that also helps.

20240303 - 1307.19 MV Strike vs Guam Test.zip

(76.56 KiB) Downloaded 27 times

20240303 - 1328.15 MV Strike vs Guam Test.zip

(78.92 KiB) Downloaded 29 times

[Raptorx7_slith]

Thanks for the report, this was a tricky one. To solve this in the interim, remove the targeting priority WRA you have set. Its causing the ships to salvo only 1 missile at a time for some reason. If you do that they will engage multiple targets at the same time as intended.

Logged as 0015654

[TempestII]

Thanks for the report, this was a tricky one. To solve this in the interim, remove the targeting priority WRA you have set. Its causing the ships to salvo only 1 missile at a time for some reason. If you do that they will engage multiple targets at the same time as intended.

Logged as 0015654

Thanks for looking into it. Unfortunately, that solution doesn't seem to have made any difference on my end; the units still engagement piecemeal.

Video Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qP6K0m ... sp=sharing

[Raptorx7_slith]

Thanks for the report, this was a tricky one. To solve this in the interim, remove the targeting priority WRA you have set. Its causing the ships to salvo only 1 missile at a time for some reason. If you do that they will engage multiple targets at the same time as intended.

Logged as 0015654

Thanks for looking into it. Unfortunately, that solution doesn't seem to have made any difference on my end; the units still engagement piecemeal.

Video Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qP6K0m ... sp=sharing

Make sure your disabling it for your entire force, don't just change your mission doctrine because it may be getting overridden.

[gennyo]

If OP has game program files of 1328.9, give it a try? I did one and it shot all the targets down at once.

IMHO, between 1328.9 and 1328.10-15 there's a big change with the engagement logic.

[DWReese]

IMHO, between 1328.9 and 1328.10-15 there's a big change with the engagement logic.

Is it possible to just swap out those two exe files .9 for .15 without messing everything up? I have swapped 15 to go back to 14, but I didn't know that you could go all the ay back to 9.

What is the file date on 9, if you don't mind me asking?

[gennyo]

My copy shows last modified date as ‎Tuesday, ‎August ‎29, ‎2023, ‏‎20:51:22.

All the DLL files in the main directory didn't change since March 2023, so it's possible to swap only the main program file. At least I haven't noticed any breaking bugs yet.

There's no official single program file release, so you have to keep your multiple files of the main EXE for comparation and rollback. If you didn't keep a single file backup, using officially released update program of the preferred version to overwrite a newer updated installation is possible, unless you are using Steam release, which makes things much difficult but not completely impossible.

I miss the public beta days which make backup and rollback much easier, and that's almost the only way Steam users to get hold of old or intermediate versions of main program EXE for testing and debug purpose without the help of other users with offline license.

Image below is showing off parts of my backups. But I didn't keep the changelogs, which hurt my test rounds sometimes hard.

[DWReese]

I have all of the updates.

So, you're saying that version 9 works, and everything after 9 doesn't target things correctly, is that correct? I do believe that, but I didn't know precisely which build changed things. The July/August/September 2023 does seem to be about the right timeline. I'd love to have a version where targeting and that floating red X wasn't around.

[gennyo]

If you are talking about the new red crosshair when manually assigning attack targets, that's implemented too early in the 64 bit branch for me to test out, as I don't want to comb through all the backups to test it.

I'm not that involved in recording the bugs I think annoying now (as I don't want to discuss it with others here unless it's too serious and I don't have any alternatives anymore) so I could not precisely descripe the problem.

I can only share my "feelings" not "facts".

The test using OP's scenario and my own *that notorious* scenario shows that units are more willing to fire in 1328.9, even without setting up missions. From early versions of 1328 (maybe even to 12xx ?) to 1328.9, the observed targeting and firing behavior is about the same to me.

1328.10 seems ignoring WRA, even don't want to fire anything when I set up manual engagement (shift+f1) towards my side manually, other units of the same side won't follow up. I dropped newer builds and wait for others to report the same issues, as I don't play often now, I can't describe it good enough and don't want to face some certain dialogs.

When 1328.14 released, I tried again, and it seems better in my observasion, at least my units would be follow-up by other units in the same side, after some units of this side was engaging me, even without setting up an attack mission. (my test scenario is posted in https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... &p=5152563)

But it still not as "happy" as I wanted like before, so I forget about it and thinking my test scenario may not up to the quality it should have for a proper testing.

Some observations, though. I think setting "firing weapons from enough units to fulfill the qty" in WRA hinders 1328.14's enemy units from firing more than using 1 or 2 units. It still not engaging as many targets as I like, but a little better I think?

[TempestII]

If you are talking about the new red crosshair when manually assigning attack targets, that's implemented too early in the 64 bit branch for me to test out, as I don't want to comb through all the backups to test it.

I'm not that involved in recording the bugs I think annoying now (as I don't want to discuss it with others here unless it's too serious and I don't have any alternatives anymore) so I could not precisely descripe the problem.

I can only share my "feelings" not "facts".

The test using OP's scenario and my own *that notorious* scenario shows that units are more willing to fire in 1328.9, even without setting up missions. From early versions of 1328 (maybe even to 12xx ?) to 1328.9, the observed targeting and firing behavior is about the same to me.

1328.10 seems ignoring WRA, even don't want to fire anything when I set up manual engagement (shift+f1) towards my side manually, other units of the same side won't follow up. I dropped newer builds and wait for others to report the same issues, as I don't play often now, I can't describe it good enough and don't want to face some certain dialogs.

When 1328.14 released, I tried again, and it seems better in my observasion, at least my units would be follow-up by other units in the same side, after some units of this side was engaging me, even without setting up an attack mission. (my test scenario is posted in https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... &p=5152563)

But it still not as "happy" as I wanted like before, so I forget about it and thinking my test scenario may not up to the quality it should have for a proper testing.

Some observations, though. I think setting "firing weapons from enough units to fulfill the qty" in WRA hinders 1328.14's enemy units from firing more than using 1 or 2 units. It still not engaging as many targets as I like, but a little better I think?

Thanks for also looking into this. Do you have a zip file of 1328.9? I can test it on my machine too.
I don't think weapons allocation is currently WAD, and also believe that this has been the case for a couple of patches now.

[DWReese]

1328.8 must have been a patch, and 1328.9 must have been the real install.

Rather than risk installing an old real install over a newer one, I swapped the 14/15 exe file for the 8. The game runs so much faster. You have lines heading toward targets rather than the red crosshairs. The SM-3 also works perfectly. Other weapons appear to work well as well.

I did notice that the greatest db that was available is 501. Nothing is listed higher than that. Perhaps there is a cap with each of the exe files? In any case, it would seem as though the game will not permit you to use a greater db and, therefore, many/all of the new scenarios likely won't work either.

It would be nice if they could use this as build, and scrap the targeting, etc. That seems to be more of a headache than it's worth. Sometimes, in trying to make things too realistic they tend to cease being fun because they no longer easily work the way that they should. It's just a thought.

[TempestII]

Thanks for the report, this was a tricky one. To solve this in the interim, remove the targeting priority WRA you have set. Its causing the ships to salvo only 1 missile at a time for some reason. If you do that they will engage multiple targets at the same time as intended.

Logged as 0015654

Thanks for looking into it. Unfortunately, that solution doesn't seem to have made any difference on my end; the units still engagement piecemeal.

Video Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qP6K0m ... sp=sharing

Make sure your disabling it for your entire force, don't just change your mission doctrine because it may be getting overridden.

I have tried that, doing it via "Game" "Side Doctrine"option, and the "Add / Edit Sides" "Doctrine - ROE". Unfortunately, it's made no difference. The issue continued after I replaced the modded MVs with stock units like the Zircon armed Russian ships. No joy with the engagement process working how it used to.

[gennyo]

Still an issue in 1328.16.

[TempestII]

I concur that it's still an issue in 1328.16, although in fairness, it wasn't mentioned on the "Fixed" list.

[TempestII]

I can confirm that this bug is still present in 1328.17 as units continue to engage piecemeal rather than in an fashion to how they did so back in 1307.19.

In this save, you'll see X2 BCGNs attacking Guam with Zircon SSMs, one on an ASuW Mission, and the other on a Land Strike Mission, firing their weapons in WRA applied salvoes, but against the exact same few targets over and over again. The issue here, as before, is that the weapons aren't being fired out as a overwhelming barrage, as one would expect, and has been the course of action in older builds (for example, 1307.19). As before, if told to engage manually against targets using the Weapons Allocation Window, the SSMs will fire at the correct ROF; workable for the player, but game-breaking for the AI side.

Save Attached:

20240322 - 1328.17 Mixed Strike vs Guam Test A - PT.zip

(91.34 KiB) Downloaded 22 times

[gennyo]

will this have a chance to be fixed in next release?

[thewood1]

Did anyone think to check .18, the most current version. Looks like there were a bunch of WRA fixes/tweaks.

[gennyo]

Did check, same behavior.

I think the issue may related to the new rocket launch mechanism? or launcher need to wait for OODA delay to finish each round? (but zero OODA units and mounts seems affected too) just my one cent.

[TempestII]

I haven't had too much chance to test the new Beta patch (1405 CIV) yet, but a quick play through of this scen suggests that the bug is fixed. Many thanks!