So, the very hard AI is cheating, right?

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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Tcao
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Re: So, the very hard AI is cheating, right?

Post by Tcao »

Does anyone know if an A/C is written off due to the damage received in a battle, is that counted as an OPs loss?

Thx
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RangerJoe
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Re: So, the very hard AI is cheating, right?

Post by RangerJoe »

Tcao wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 2:34 pm Does anyone know if an A/C is written off due to the damage received in a battle, is that counted as an OPs loss?

Thx
Yes, I do know that.
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Tcao
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Re: So, the very hard AI is cheating, right?

Post by Tcao »

Here is the test result
WITP AE A2A.jpg
WITP AE A2A.jpg (134.99 KiB) Viewed 696 times
Excel file attached

The exchange ratio (air + ops loss) change from 1:4 in easy mode to 2:1 in very hard mode
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Rogue188
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Re: So, the very hard AI is cheating, right?

Post by Rogue188 »

Just for clarification, are the A2A numbers losses or kills?
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Tcao
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Re: So, the very hard AI is cheating, right?

Post by Tcao »

Those are air to air losses from the intelligence report.
I am playing Japan side vs Allied AI
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PaxMondo
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Re: So, the very hard AI is cheating, right?

Post by PaxMondo »

Nice Work.

Question: Is there an AIr HQ in range of the allied base? If so, what is the commander Air rating?
Pax
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Yaab
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Re: So, the very hard AI is cheating, right?

Post by Yaab »

No matter the setting, the AI loses lots of its aircraft to OP losses. The AI probably runs its airgroups in very unoptimised ways.
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Tcao
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Re: So, the very hard AI is cheating, right?

Post by Tcao »

switch side and get into Allied information panel.
PaxMondo wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2024 2:06 am Nice Work.

Question: Is there an AIr HQ in range of the allied base? If so, what is the commander Air rating?
Yes, RAF 221 Group HQ is in Rangoon.
For IJAAF's airgroup, the experience average at 68-72, commanders air rating are in the 60s
for AVG, experience is at 60, commander's air rating are in the 60s. RAF's experience is at 55, air rating is at 45.

Yaab wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2024 6:02 am No matter the setting, the AI loses lots of its aircraft to OP losses. The AI probably runs its airgroups in very unoptimised ways.
That is because of the damaged written off A/C
witp ae ops 1.jpg
witp ae ops 1.jpg (650.07 KiB) Viewed 516 times
AVG/2nd sqd Panda Bears lost total 10 H81 in last two days, 5 were shot down from sky. From watching the combat animation I believe there are dozen H81 damaged (and quite interesting this doesn't show on combat report), 5 of those severely damaged are written off.
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PaxMondo
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Re: So, the very hard AI is cheating, right?

Post by PaxMondo »

So, again, if you feel these results are cheating, then you should play PBEM. If this doesn't bother you, then continue to read for my explanation.

* I am not a dev, have never been a dev, have never seen the code, and this is totally based upon conjecture and my time in playing against the AI.

To my knowledge, the AI doesn't know how to move HQ's. Of any kind. Where they start is pretty much where they stay. So, ignoring set piece battles (Singapore in early '42), the AI is generally at a severe disadvantage as it doesn't know to move Air HQ's around to help support operations. The devs in their infinite wisdom (seriously here, not sarcastically) sat back and said something like "Ok, well then what we can do is give the AI an air bonus that would "look" like it had actually moved an Air HQ into range. As you know, Air HQ's provide a number of bonuses in terms of A/C launched, group cohesion, etc. This is what I believe you are seeing. Now, here is the downside: it can't know that there is already an Air HQ present giving a bonus. So the bonus can get doubled up on occasion. So this is the "behind the curtain" look at what is happening.

The player (me) sees that the AI base is being particularly effective in its air defense. Likely, I noticed higher than normal losses of my recon. I consider that it means they have really effective leadership, likely an Air HQ, maybe a Command HQ too, and likely radar. So, I need to prosecute any attack here with greater than normal numbers to compensate.

For AI players, this is not cheating, this is the AI. For PBEM players, well .... :lol: :lol: :lol:


:geek: :geek: :geek:
Pax
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Tcao
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Re: So, the very hard AI is cheating, right?

Post by Tcao »

PaxMondo wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2024 12:58 am then you should play PBEM.
Absolutely!
The problem is I don't have enough time dedicate to a GC. I am still learning things through small size scenario playing, and hopefully I can play a guadalcanal scenario PBEM very soon.
But for a GC PBEM, well, maybe I will have to wait for another 30 years after I retired? 8-)
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CaptBeefheart
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Re: So, the very hard AI is cheating, right?

Post by CaptBeefheart »

Playing against the AI, especially Ironman, is all about taking a new bit of territory and then setting up a good defense. Offensive air can be very expensive unless you are also doing shore bombardment of the target field. Night airfield attacks can also work, although some people consider them too powerful.

EDIT: I wouldn't call it cheating. Without an all-knowing AI able to respond to anything, it needs some buffs to keep things interesting. Otherwise you'd be invading Hokkaido in 1942.

Cheers,
CB
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