15 ship TF optimum for flak

[Bella]

I read somewhere that a TF gets maximum effectiveness per ship for flak when the number of vessels is 15 or lower.

True? What are the numbers?

[dr.hal]

the manual states that the limit in a surface or air combat TF is 25 ships. Obviously the higher the AAA per ship the better AA defense. Keep in mind the Allies have aircraft limits per CV TF at the outset (100 a/c per TF at start IIRC) which could impact CAP and thus air defense.

[LargeSlowTarget]

IIRC there is a diminishing return of investment starting with the 16 ship of a TF i.e. the TF AA defense still increases with each additional ship, but not at 100% of the individual ship's AA value.

[Chris21wen]

When you consider the area a 16 ship TF covers (2 sq miles at least) then deminishing the fire power with more than that number. One side of the TF would probably not fire at an attack coming from the other side due to not having a clear line of sight. Height obviously matters but it's even possible they may not even see the ac if low level.

[Bella]

When you consider the area a 16 ship TF covers (2 sq miles at least) then deminishing the fire power with more than that number. One side of the TF would probably not fire at an attack coming from the other side due to not having a clear line of sight. Height obviously matters but it's even possible they may not even see the ac if low level.

Good point. I wonder if that is modelled in any way in the game.

[Sardaukar]

As being said, after 15 ships, there is diminishing return.

That does not mean flak would somehow lessen, just that additional ships don't contribute all their flak. But they still add up.

I always fill CV TF to max 25 ships. There is bit of downside in this, though...you increase chances of collisions with increased number of ships.

[sstevens06]

From mid-1944 (if not earlier) until the end of the war USN carrier task force size was close to 25 ships. They might have figured the extra AA was worth the increased chance of collisions. In my (limited) experience ship and task force commanders with high naval skills reduce collisions to some extent.

[dr.hal]

As being said, after 15 ships, there is diminishing return.

The idea of more than 15 ships is a diminishing AAA return has been put forth a few times, however without support. Can anyone point to patches or threads by developers that underscore this point? I too tend to believe it but can't say were this view comes from or how valid it is....

[Sardaukar]

It is somewhere.

Life is too short to dig everything up.

[LargeSlowTarget]

I'm still young - relatively for this place here - so I have done some digging and found a dev comment - by Nikademus :

" The "15" is a soft limit on AA effectiveness. After 15 ships the cumulative AA total incurred a diminishing returns penalty."
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... p?t=224524

[dr.hal]

I'm still young - relatively for this place here - so I have done some digging and found a dev comment - by Nikademus :

Wow LST, as we say in the Navy: Bravo Zulu! that's a perfect find, thanks for the research. Hal

[Yaab]

As being said, after 15 ships, there is diminishing return.

The idea of more than 15 ships is a diminishing AAA return has been put forth a few times, however without support. Can anyone point to patches or threads by developers that underscore this point? I too tend to believe it but can't say were this view comes from or how valid it is....

Manual, p.91
„Task forces that consist of more than 15 ships suffer diminishing returns in effectiveness defending against air attack and fighting in surface battles „

[dr.hal]

Yes buried in 6.2 in its last paragraph!!! Great find, thanks Yaab.

[JeffroK]

As being said, after 15 ships, there is diminishing return.

That does not mean flak would somehow lessen, just that additional ships don't contribute all their flak. But they still add up.

I always fill CV TF to max 25 ships. There is bit of downside in this, though...you increase chances of collisions with increased number of ships.

Ditto, It also allows for losses and being able to create a small task force if required.