Are the Soviets too strong!

[boldairade]

And also MMs. Allies need to buy escort and MMs, lots. From my games, my experience is that if it goes to 1945, the Allies must expect to lose ~600-700 MMs and ~ 40 escorts and yet still "win" the BoA (assuming about 12 U-boats). Running out of MMs do require to neglect buying them. It must be a serious task at the beginning (10 MMs every second turn in mid-1940 to mid1941 is normal) and remain a small recurrent buy for quite a while.

It is necessary to buy accordingly, I suspect too many players do not buy that many. By "winning the BoA", I mean that by 1943, MMs damage will be quite in control, but the Allies will invest more that the Germans in it (but that is normal).

in our game, i can't remember if i ever fell short, though i know it sure was uncomfortable

i thought my error may have been not building enough ship yards in the US early on.

do you think it's better to build yards or ships?

the yards are cheaper, if germany doesn't go u boat, you aren't out that much

but if they do, you could really build

i honestly don't know

[Nirosi]

I build very few ship yards with the US. Only 4 IIRC, enough to make a total round number, because it is then easier to build MMs and LC which cost 10 and 5 respectively. But overall, I think that the US and UK together have enough yards to handle the BoA most of the time. The situation can still remain slightly difficult even after 1943, but usually "manageable", allowing to do the "other things".

[CHINCHIN]

I see it as interesting to build 5 shipyards for the US, and another 5 for the UK, at least. Otherwise the mathematics does not give, and even then something fair.

If Germany builds 15 submarines they will eliminate an average of 12 MM per turn, in 6 months 144 MM sunk. If we count on the USSR not to build MM, due to having other priorities, the allies have 75+40+15 = 130 shipyards (US+UK+Canada) if we reserve 20 shipyards for escorts and landing craft, they can only replace 110 MM each 6 months, you have a deficit of -34, if in the first years of the war you have not managed to have a very comfortable number of MM, starting in 1943 you will have serious problems.

[stjeand]

I always have the Canadians building 1 MM and the rest as escorts...
Seems to be a big help overall.

[Nirosi]

I always have the Canadians building 1 MM and the rest as escorts...
Seems to be a big help overall.

Same here, except maybe 2 MM overall. By 1942, I start to vary a little and try also to build a small Canadian army just because it is cool!

[ncc1701e]

This is true that if the Axis is destroying too many MM, the USSR will not receive enough PP to survive.

[CHINCHIN]

Although the UK runs out of MM in 1943, the USSR survives, the problem is that it cannot counterattack with force.

The one that usually runs out of MM is the UK, the US usually has plenty, and can send production to the USSR. Another thing that happens is that the US never lends its surplus MM to the UK no matter how much it needs it.

[boldairade]

Although the UK runs out of MM in 1943, the USSR survives, the problem is that it cannot counterattack with force.

The one that usually runs out of MM is the UK, the US usually has plenty, and can send production to the USSR. Another thing that happens is that the US never lends its surplus MM to the UK no matter how much it needs it.

why wouldn't the US lend it's MM to the UK? are you saying this is a flaw?

i thought they were pooled(the MMs) after the US joined? i thought i read that in the manual

[CHINCHIN]

I'm not 100% sure, can anyone confirm?

I understand that the game does not contemplate it, and if the rules indicate it it could be a error.

[AlvaroSousa]

Pretty sure the US can lend to the UK.

[CHINCHIN]

I do not think so. MM are only lent if the country that receives production does not have enough MM, and those of the country that lends the PP are used.

But by default, if UK runs out of MM, US does not use its MM to transport production from the colonies to the UK. Checked.

[AlvaroSousa]

Well that is true. Something I didn't think of. Or was it an exploit I forsaw? I forgot which.

Let me ponder a solution.

[ncc1701e]

Are you saying that this message I am seeing each turn, since quite a long time, is a false report from the Abwehr?

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mm.JPG (24.23 KiB) Viewed 973 times

[CHINCHIN]

Yes, that message is correct. Because the US is lending PP to the UK, and since the UK does not have enough MM, it uses the US MM. But this only happens in this case, and only for PPs sent by the US.

If the UK does not have enough MM to transport resources from its colonies, and the US has idle MM, the US does not use these MM to transport resources from the colonies to the UK.

[CHINCHIN]

Third hot seat game where UK is left without MM. Despite building 15 shipyards and MM without rest. With 15 German submarines, but they could easily build more.

MM UK.jpg (198.71 KiB) Viewed 931 times

prod UK.jpg (78.23 KiB) Viewed 931 times

Another thing that happens now is that due to the Soviet potential, the axis from 1942 onwards attacks less and less on the Eastern Front. And oil is no longer a problem.

Oil GE.jpg (209.26 KiB) Viewed 931 times

[AlvaroSousa]

Hmmm, maybe a cost for defending should be put in place.

But also I am the proponent of strategic bombing.

[CHINCHIN]

In oil maintenance I would replace the -1 oil x 3 units off rails, with -1 for every 5 oil consumed by the units on the map. I'm not referring to the oil they consume when moving, attacking... But rather the consumption that marks their characteristics, whether they move and/or attack or not.

In this way we would also limit the construction of units that consume oil.

[generalfdog]

Yes, that message is correct. Because the US is lending PP to the UK, and since the UK does not have enough MM, it uses the US MM. But this only happens in this case, and only for PPs sent by the US.

If the UK does not have enough MM to transport resources from its colonies, and the US has idle MM, the US does not use these MM to transport resources from the colonies to the UK.

You don't want it all pooled or allies being able to just use your convoys to move other allies stuff because then there would be no point in multiple research or convoys for that matter

[CHINCHIN]

Whether or not MMs can be used for other allies, you will always need to research convoy technology for the UK and US. UK obviously, but US also to be able to use its escorts if it is the only one to send PP to the USSR, something that usually happens.

[battlevonwar]

Allies have a much more complex set of strategies to deal with the Axis. You have to a better player I think to play them effectively. It's much easier to smash and grab as the Axis(but playing them is not forgiving with too many errors) 1 lost city can mean the game.