Defending Burma (vs AI)

[Justus2]

I have a two-part question, regarding defending Burma vs. the AI. I am almost at an important milestone (for me, I keep restarting LOL), 1 JAN 42, in my latest attempt at a GC vs AI (Scen 1). My initial plan was to develop a strong defense of Burma, in order to keep my supplies flowing to China. But I have also read in several threads, that the AI will get frustrated if it can't get certain areas, and will continue to beat it's head against the door, eventually becoming broken in the process. So is that the case with Burma? I haven't played far enough in to know if I am on the right track, so I am looking for feedback.

Here's what I have done so far:

1. I reunited the 1st Burma Div at Pegu, now up to 302 AV, 2 forts (+44%), and 3K supplies.
2. I rebuilt the 17th Indian Div at Rangoon (with Ghurka Bde and one that I railed over from Karachi and shipped from Calcutta), total in Rangoon of 383 AV, 3 forts, 25K supplies. Also have 2 AVG Squadrons, and a Buffalo squadron in Pegu.
3. I evac'd a couple BFs and some infantry BNs (air trans and using xAKs) from the coast to Port Blair, which is at 77AV, 2 forts, 6K supplies.
4. I have seperate Bns along the Burma Road, and starting to fortify Mandalay (97AV, 1 fort, 4k supply).
5. I have moved the AVG ground element and a Chinese div to Lashio, (56AV), with several more (150AV) on the way.

What I would like to do is hold the Burma road open as best I can, anchoring it on Rangoon and Lashio. I know the IJA will probably be able to cut it, but if I can hold the two ends, I can hopefully use some manuever to reopen it from time to time, tie up IJA forces, and attrit them until I am able to re-establish in Burma. Thats one reason I want to hold Port Blair, as a nav search base and to protect SLOC into Rangoon. Or alternatively, if I do lose Rangoon, it is a good base to harass IJN resupply efforts. But since I have never gotten too far into the GC, I don't know if that is realistic. And if it is, how will that affect the AI? They have moved slowly thus far over here, taking Tavoy but not much further. I have had constant air raids alternating over P Blair, Rangoon, and Pegu. The AVG has kept them from shutting me down, but I do lose a few xAKs here and there. But if the AI focuses on air superiority, I am afraid they could make it hard to keep supplies flowing.

Is this feasible? Is it advisable against the AI? Do I need more forces? I still have the 18 UK in reserve (landed at Colombo til I decide my next step), and one of the independent Indian bdes (other two went to Coco and Garcia). I haven't seen any IJN activity in Indian Ocean, but don't expect that until Singapore falls (I don't expect them to hold long, IJA is 2 hexes north, I pulled the Aussie Bdes out to Darwin, so only about 850 AV remaining). Cant do much more in the air, first Hurricane sqdrn is on the way from Cape Town.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any thoughts/suggestions!!

[Puhis]

I don't think you should defend Burma vs. AI. If japanese AI fails to take Burma, it'll probably break the AI.

[jmalter]

hi Justus2, i'm playing a GC vs. the AI, using DBB_B.

1, you were wise to evac the Oz Bdes from Singapore. still, it's important to hang on to Singers as long as possible - once it's lost, all the IJ LCU will come after you in Burma. try to keep fighters flying out of Singapore, & try to evac unneeded Brit BFs. be a bit gamey, and populate your bases w/ cheesy 1-ship TFs of MLs or HDMLs to soak up IJN attacks against your base-hexes.

2, Pegu is a good place to stand, so turtle into there & build forts. it suffers a bit 'cos it's undeveloped & can't hold much supply, also troops there fatigue quickly (malarial zone effect?) but can recover in Rangoon. defend the clear-terrain hex NE of Pegu, the AI will try to slip in there & break the BurmaRoad. you'll have a few small photo-recon sqns available, they can give you AEW notice of IJ LCUs approaching your defenses.

3, the AVG boys are key to the air-defense of Burma. micro-manage them to keep their morale high & fatigue low. they withdraw in July '42, by this time you'll have RAF fighters.

4, you'll slowly accrue RAF elements (Hurricane trop fighters and Blenheim bombers) arriving in Aden, use high-speed AirTransportTFs to bring them to Bombay from Aden, then railroad them to Calcutta. the Blenheims will be effective against the IJ LCU in the Pegu hex, also you must suppress the IJ airbase in Moulmein. use a Chittagong airbase initially, expand into Akyab.

5, use small AmphTFs to bring supply from Calcutta to Rangoon & Akyab. expect to lose AKLs to IJ air-attack, but you've got lots of AKLs. IJN will send an occaisional SurfTF into the Bay of Bengal, but you'll have some Catalina groups, and some Vildebeest TBs.

6, scour India for any unit of value - don't neglect the garrison req'ments, but strat-move everything else to Calcutta or Chittagong. you are under the gun here, you've got to have units in place in Burma before Singapore falls.

7, of course you won't neglect to send an Engr/AirBF to Ledo, & build up its airfield. you won't have enough C-47s until June '42, but it'll help if you start preparing the air-bridge now.

8, keep an eye on the intel reports screen (ctrl-I), tag the 'ground units destroyed' button. you'll want to spend PP to buy back any RAF or RN BFs. they'll re-appear in Aden w/ minimal components, but there'll be enough devices in the pools to reconstitute them quickly, once you set them to 'replacements allowed'. don't be in a hurry to buy back land-combat units, or expensive air-groups, but you'll need the BF-type LCUs as soon as possible.

9, heh, i'm long-winded here, but you asked for it!

hth

[DavidTheGreat]

7, of course you won't neglect to send an Engr/AirBF to Ledo, & build up its airfield. you won't have enough C-47s until June '42, but it'll help if you start preparing the air-bridge now.

You can use bombers, even chinese ones to lift supply.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

I don't think you should defend Burma vs. AI. If japanese AI fails to take Burma, it'll probably break the AI.

Agreed. I have done it several times in the Iron Man scenario. It's simple. Put the AVG in Rangoon. Evac III Indian Corps from Singapore. Ship it to Rangoon via Oosthaven and Colombo and park it in Pegu. The AI will move a 2500AV stack into Pegu and bog down unable to take the base. Spend the next few weeks surrounding Pegu and cutting off the IJ army. Starve and bomb it to death for the next few months and by April or May the Britich army is on it's way to overrunning southeast Asia.

Breaking the AI in Burma is a good way not to make it to '43 as the game goes down the drain.

[Cavalry Corp]

Why so much commitment to defeating the AI:)

[Justus2]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. Sounds like I am on the right track in terms of my defenses but will only succeed in derailing the AI if successful

What is a good like to 'give' to the AI? Should I pull back to Mandalay, or am I better off just ceding all of Burma proper, and start building my MLR along Chittagong-Impahl-Ledo? Is it still worthwhile trying to retain Port Blair?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Justus2

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. Sounds like I am on the right track in terms of my defenses but will only succeed in derailing the AI if successful

What is a good like to 'give' to the AI? Should I pull back to Mandalay, or am I better off just ceding all of Burma proper, and start building my MLR along Chittagong-Impahl-Ledo? Is it still worthwhile trying to retain Port Blair?

I've played Port Blair both ways in both a Scen 1 and a Scen 2 and the AI dealt with it fine. I've always pulled back to Imphal in both cases and all was well. Even then the AI will make a maximum air effort in Burma. I routinely had airbase attacks with 100 bombers and 150 fighters to my 8-10 Spitfires.

[LSpainUS]

Trying out my first campaign..making mistakes along the way. Does defending Burma still break the AI these days (12 years later)?

[Sardaukar]

Not really.

There is very little critical stuff for Japan in Burma and it's difficult to mass enough troops to stop AI in Pegu. And it can actually outflank nowadays, so Allies are threatened with encirclement in Rangoon-Pegu area.

[Jellicoe]

In my first campaigns I defended at Pegu using 17th and 18th divisions plus 1st Burma and some of the Indian brigades and then reinforced and outflanked using the Australians. The AI goes exactly as Hans Bolter describes. This is fun to a degree in that it creates lots of naval combat around Rangoon and gave me the opportunity in DaBabes to use HMS Erebus (because monitors are just cool things to use) to bombard coastal Japanese stacks but inevitably it then creates a loss of SE Asia in 43 to the allies

In more recent campaigns I have taken to puling things back to Imphal with variants including holding/not holding Andamans and Ramree. I tend to use PP to evacuate Australians and ideally III corps from Singapore as again it is relatively easy to turn Singapore into a meat grinder that guts too many Japanese formations for a good game. I probably need to be less hasty about my reinvasion of Burma as the AI approach to garrison is a bit spasmodic. Giving the AI its head early definitely makes for a different and more interesting game but its worth doing the forward defence first so you can see both sides of the coin

[rockmedic109]

Build up Rangoon Port Size till it can support cruisers. Move the RN cruisers in and have them park at Rangoon with bombardment orders. When they finally retreat, you can follow them all the way down the coast with the cruisers. Combined with ground attack by the air forces at Rangoon for that little extra icing on the cake.

This will require a lot of supplies going into Rangoon. Some will be lost but you get so many xAKs that you can place them end to end from Colombo and drive trucks across them to Rangoon. OK not quite that many, and it is not factored in the rules but....

[Bella]

I’ve been successfully holding Rangoon against a IJA siege, and may very well be on the way to breaking that siege. Here’s how I did it:

* send all ground and air reinforcements from Cape Town and Suez (except Australians) to Rangoon while you can. Screw Singapore (politically impossible in the real war which is why the British sailed two brigades there which then marched straight into POW camps). When the Japanese arrive at Rangoon, send the reinforcements to Chittagong instead. Rail them to Imphala, march them down to Schwebo, then rail them to Daik-u (just NE of Rangoon). Defeat the Japanese cover force there, then advance on Pegu and cut off the IJA force seiging Rangoon.

* while you can, stockpile supplies in Rangoon. Fuel is good too.

* Right from Day 1, start building the airfield and fortifications up in Rangoon. No point building the port because larger ships can’t get up the river anyway, and the Japanese soon cut it off. From Day 1, build up both airbases and ports in Chittagong, Akyab, and Sandoway. Akyab has up to a Level 6 airfield potential. Sandoway is important, because you can land troops there and march them across to reinforce Rangoon after the IJA arrives at Rangoon. Enemy aircraft can reach there but they generally get butchered by the Rangoon CAP. I’ve only lost one AKL there.

* Build up Ports and airbases in Trincomalee and Columbo. Keep a small assortment of freighters for the auto convoy out of Columbo (5-6 ships is plenty to handle all the little bases.) Keep expanding Abadan’s port. Expand airfields at Mandalay and Magee. They will come in handy as fighter units and base forces arrive.

* build up air groups in Rangoon, mainly fighters. Put all the AVG there. They will rack up big scores on Betty’s and Nells, and IJA fighters like Oscars. There are few Zeroes there. The upshot is that you will gain air superiority.

* Use the British naval reinforcements (BB, CA and CL) to Bombard Tavoy, Pegu, Sittang Bridge, and especially Moulmein, to hammer their supply line and wreck the airfields and ports. Once they take Port Blair, hit that too. These are older crappy ships that the Japanese Navy would sweep aside, but they’re good for this job. I set up the three (nearly useless) British Carriers just to the west of Port Blair and send them in to hit and run supply convoys. Swordfish are good for this.

* make good use of the air supply transport units that arrive. Base them in Chittagong and use them to supply the drive on Daik-u and Pegu.

* put some good ASW aircraft in Colombo and Trincomalee, and dedicate at least a trio of DDs or minesweepers as ASW. The IJN subs can be a pain around there. Give all tanker convoys good escort. They are in short supply.

At this point, I’ve driven the IJA out of Pegu (never seen a Japanese force retreat until now) with my Imphal-Schwebo-Daik-u forces, and the IJA units sieving Rangoon are cut off. They’re sending Amphib convoys straight to Rangoon with supplies and reinforcements now. Desperation move, and I’m sinking a fair share of those with my Bombardment groups. The Bengal Sea is full of dead.enemy ships and soldiers.

By the way, I excluded Australian units because I wanted to keep at least some historicity. The Australians insisted that their troops returning from the Middle East went to Australia, even when Churchill begged them to send at least a division to Burma. Plus the Australians will need those troops for the advance in New Guinea.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

I don't think you should defend Burma vs. AI. If japanese AI fails to take Burma, it'll probably break the AI.

Breaking the AI in Burma is a good way not to make it to '43 as the game goes down the drain.

+1

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

I don't think you should defend Burma vs. AI. If japanese AI fails to take Burma, it'll probably break the AI.

Breaking the AI in Burma is a good way not to make it to '43 as the game goes down the drain.

+1

If you want to see breaking the AI:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 5&t=403203

[Bella]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. Sounds like I am on the right track in terms of my defenses but will only succeed in derailing the AI if successful

What is a good like to 'give' to the AI? Should I pull back to Mandalay, or am I better off just ceding all of Burma proper, and start building my MLR along Chittagong-Impahl-Ledo? Is it still worthwhile trying to retain Port Blair?

The ‘Help the AI’ school seems to favour an immediate retreat to at least Mandalay, but you can’t hold there; not enough supply. So, yeah, you have to then retreat to the Chittagong-Imphal-Ledo line.

You also have to hold off pounding the supply ports like Pegu, Moulmein and Tavoy with bombardments and air.

I don’t think even the ‘Help the AIs’ would not divert that hopeless convoy to Singapore of the 50th and 51st British brigades (they basically walked off the sips and into POW camps). But if you did let it go to Singapore, they would not be in Burma, and that helps the AI.

Also, under-use and make less effective your air units by dispersing units and providing minimal aviation support. Strangely, these are all things that the British did in reality.

[Bella]

Port Blair I don’t know about yet. I just lost it. It looks like a big problem for re-supplying and reinforcing Rangoon if I let them develop it, especially the airbase. I’m strongly considering a counter-amphibious attack to get it back. Just leaving it be would help the AI.

But first I have to re-take Cocos Island in the Indian Ocean. IJN just took it, and that’s a big bulge in my Colombo-Perth route, if they get Betty’s out there.