Struggling with Air Superiority

[ScrubLord93]

Hello all, my friend and I are both completely new to the game and have been running a Scenario 1 grand campaign after doing some of the smaller scale PBEM scenarios. I'm playing as Japan, and have been having a hell of a time neutralizing Allied air power in any theater (Philippines, Malaya and Burma), taking tremendous casualties in the process. I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing with fighter sweeps, as even experienced pilots flying the best airframes I can field right now (Jan '42) at best exchange 1:1 or 1:2 with P-40s and often worse than that.

I recently ran a sweep at 25k altitude over Rangoon using the small Ki-44 unit you start with, piloted exclusively by 80xp elite pilots and they got slaughtered by the H81-A3s stationed there. I think it ended up being a 1:4 exchange in my opponent's favor when I thought I was going to be doing something clever with my elite squadron .

Any advice? I'm aware that overwhelming numbers can play a large part in air results but I had ran A6M2 sweeps over Rangoon numerous times before I sent the Ki-44s to thin the Flying Tiger numbers and I think the dogfight was 8 Japanese to 14 Allied aircraft.

[Chris21wen]

Please read th Air guide here https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3&t=396274

Unfortunately you picked on one of the strongest and best air unit the allies have at the beginning of the war. The flying tigers have been at it for years in China and are better pilots than most IJA pilots and well lead, not so much the IJN. The H81-A3 is armoured and quicker than all but the Tojo. It is superior to the Nate and Oscar on a par with the Tojo with the Zero being the best the Japanese have. No Japanese plane is armoured. Result is you will loose more ac and pilots.

The other problem is small and altitude. The Tojo unit is too small to have any impact. Keep sweeps at the best maneuver altitude the ac has and make sure your leaders and pilots have good air skill. You will wear them down.

The other thing you can do is catch them on the ground to stop them flying.

[RangerJoe]

Please read th Air guide here https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3&t=396274

Unfortunately you picked on one of the strongest and best air unit the allies have at the beginning of the war. The flying tigers have been at it for years in China and are better pilots than most IJA pilots and well lead, not so much the IJN. The H81-A3 is armoured and quicker than all but the Tojo. It is superior to the Nate and Oscar on a par with the Tojo with the Zero being the best the Japanese have. No Japanese plane is armoured. Result is you will loose more ac and pilots.

The other problem is small and altitude. The Tojo unit is too small to have any impact. Keep sweeps at the best maneuver altitude the ac has and make sure your leaders and pilots have good air skill. You will wear them down.

The other thing you can do is catch them on the ground to stop them flying.

Actually, the AVG was just starting with volunteer pilots from the USA. Their commander had lots of experience in China using the smaller Chinese Air Force.

[PaxMondo]

Hello all, my friend and I are both completely new to the game and have been running a Scenario 1 grand campaign after doing some of the smaller scale PBEM scenarios. I'm playing as Japan, and have been having a hell of a time neutralizing Allied air power in any theater (Philippines, Malaya and Burma), taking tremendous casualties in the process. I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing with fighter sweeps, as even experienced pilots flying the best airframes I can field right now (Jan '42) at best exchange 1:1 or 1:2 with P-40s and often worse than that.

I recently ran a sweep at 25k altitude over Rangoon using the small Ki-44 unit you start with, piloted exclusively by 80xp elite pilots and they got slaughtered by the H81-A3s stationed there. I think it ended up being a 1:4 exchange in my opponent's favor when I thought I was going to be doing something clever with my elite squadron .

Any advice? I'm aware that overwhelming numbers can play a large part in air results but I had ran A6M2 sweeps over Rangoon numerous times before I sent the Ki-44s to thin the Flying Tiger numbers and I think the dogfight was 8 Japanese to 14 Allied aircraft.

Welcome to WitP the best game ever!!!

and Welcome to the IJ!

Many newcomers to the game, having read popular histories, will frequently think that the IJ can roll over the allies with no sweat. Alas, this is far from true. The IJ can win most, if not all, battles in the early going, but you need to apply sound tactics and strategies. Remember that the allied player benefits heavily from hindsight, meaning unlike the historical allied commanders, he has exact knowledge of your starting strength and your overall capabilities.

To echo previous comments, the Airwar guide is mandatory reading for successful tactics. Once you have read that, then you will not need me to point out that 8:14 odds were not what you wanted to achieve and you should know tactically what you need to do to fix that.

What I want to point out is that your strategic plan may also be at fault, something not really covered in the air guide. You use the air guide to determine what you need tactically to succeed, but your strategy is what dictates IF those units are available WHEN they are needed. This is where all the planning comes in, foresight, and experience. Realize that in your first games, your lack of experience will ultimately lead to not having your strategies perform well, generally meaning to your time element will be off, as you failed to have the necessary units in place to assure you can apply the correct tactics.

So, early games are about getting your tactics down pat; seems easy, but there are a lot of them. Almost every single tactic that you use has an effective deterrent, particularly true as the IJ. You will learn that there are a couple of allied tactics to which there are only so-so IJ counters to. The tactical art is about choosing your best option initially, but being willing and able to adjust to the allied counter tactic (which may be the perfect response). The second thing you need to work on is learning what is needed strategically to assert those tactics, and what/how many units that represents and when you have to get them in motion to be where they need to be at the right time. Idle units are always suspicious, BUT as the IJ moving units when not needed can be the death of you. Supply and fuel (both used in movement) are limited commodities for the IJ.

Enjoy and Good LUCK!!!

[Bella]

Despite rolling over the Allies in the Indies and the Philippines, the Japanese did in fact take pretty consistently high losses to air units. It caused a lot of concern to both the IJA and IJN, neither of which predicted the loss rates that happened. But when you focus on one or two traits, like range and maneuverability at the expense of aircraft and pilot armour, structural strength and heavy self-sealing gas tanks, you’re going to take losses. Lucky flak shots increase greatly in probability. They also had to do a little re-education with their highly motivated but maybe not tactically savvy air crew. For example, going in for strafing runs on ships after dropping torpedoes and bombs from Betty’s, Nell’s and others showed great spirit but caused much bigger losses. Intentionally crashing still flyable aircraft into enemy ships was another mindset the higher command had to try to dissuade their men from (even though they encouraged it in special cases later, as we all know). I saw a copy of one of the posters their propaganda whatever unit had posted at airbases. The caption to the exciting image of a Zero banking over burning ships was (roughly translated): “Fight bravely, and live to fight again!”

[PaxMondo]

For example, going in for strafing runs on ships after dropping torpedoes and bombs from Betty’s, Nell’s and others showed great spirit but caused much bigger losses.

I'm guessing the LB's were set to 1000' ... yep, need to read the Air Guide carefully.

[Sardaukar]

One trick is to sweep a base that is close to base where enemy has CAP. This will cause less enemy fighters on air, at target so you get usually favourable numbers. It's called "leaking CAP" where CAP tries also defend nearby bases within range.

Some might call it bit gamey, but it can be countered in PBEM, so there is that. AI cannot really adjust well against that.

[rockmedic109]

Keep Fatigue down. You can try a CAP trap. Move your carriers close enough to be seen and let him attack you. Set your fighters a little higher than his bombers will come in. This will only work early as the Allies will soon have so many airframes that they can afford losses.

This is dangerous, though. You are putting ships at risk. Even more dangerous is the attrition to your pilots. Some will fall in the fight and well-trained pilots are a finite source. I have never played as Japan, so I cannot say whether it is worth the risk. Allies get so much of everything that attrition works for them.

[RangerJoe]

For example, going in for strafing runs on ships after dropping torpedoes and bombs from Betty’s, Nell’s and others showed great spirit but caused much bigger losses.

I'm guessing the LB's were set to 1000' ... yep, need to read the Air Guide carefully.

They were probably set at 100 feet so they would strafe.

[PaxMondo]

For example, going in for strafing runs on ships after dropping torpedoes and bombs from Betty’s, Nell’s and others showed great spirit but caused much bigger losses.

I'm guessing the LB's were set to 1000' ... yep, need to read the Air Guide carefully.

They were probably set at 100 feet so they would strafe.

you're right. but either way (strafe at 100' or lownav at 1000'), IJ aircraft don't survive that very well. just too low DUR.

[ScrubLord93]

Please read th Air guide here https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3&t=396274

Unfortunately you picked on one of the strongest and best air unit the allies have at the beginning of the war. The flying tigers have been at it for years in China and are better pilots than most IJA pilots and well lead, not so much the IJN. The H81-A3 is armoured and quicker than all but the Tojo. It is superior to the Nate and Oscar on a par with the Tojo with the Zero being the best the Japanese have. No Japanese plane is armoured. Result is you will loose more ac and pilots.

The other problem is small and altitude. The Tojo unit is too small to have any impact. Keep sweeps at the best maneuver altitude the ac has and make sure your leaders and pilots have good air skill. You will wear them down.

The other thing you can do is catch them on the ground to stop them flying.

A wonderful guide that I made sure to look through when I was learning more about the air war! I think I understand most of the factors going into the outcomes but it always seems like altitude is the main factor when resolving dogfights. That of course makes sense given that air combat is largely a battle of potential energies, but I guess I don't really see the point of sweeping with my Zeroes at 20k alt where they're more maneuverable when they seem to get the "from behind" bonus much more when I set them at 25 or 30k.

[ScrubLord93]

Welcome to WitP the best game ever!!!

and Welcome to the IJ!

Thanks!

So, early games are about getting your tactics down pat; seems easy, but there are a lot of them. Almost every single tactic that you use has an effective deterrent, particularly true as the IJ. You will learn that there are a couple of allied tactics to which there are only so-so IJ counters to. The tactical art is about choosing your best option initially, but being willing and able to adjust to the allied counter tactic (which may be the perfect response). The second thing you need to work on is learning what is needed strategically to assert those tactics, and what/how many units that represents and when you have to get them in motion to be where they need to be at the right time. Idle units are always suspicious, BUT as the IJ moving units when not needed can be the death of you. Supply and fuel (both used in movement) are limited commodities for the IJ.

Enjoy and Good LUCK!!!

This has certainly been the case! It's night and day between how unorganized my strategic movement is compared to any of the YouTube PBEM campaigns I've watched. I've already had to ship a few units from West to East back out West again, burning precious time and fuel in the process. My only comfort is that since we're both new, there's a lot of room for error and I'm sure both of us will make plenty of mistakes.

[ScrubLord93]

One trick is to sweep a base that is close to base where enemy has CAP. This will cause less enemy fighters on air, at target so you get usually favourable numbers. It's called "leaking CAP" where CAP tries also defend nearby bases within range.

Some might call it bit gamey, but it can be countered in PBEM, so there is that. AI cannot really adjust well against that.

Thanks for the tip! I wouldn't consider that gamey since you could reason the fighter sweep is lurking farther from the enemy airfield to avoid the main force in favor of isolated patrols. It's still Jan '42 though so my loss tolerance is higher considering time is against me, but I'll certainly keep that tactic in mind. I probably should've done that with my 8 strong Tojo force instead of sending them straight into Rangoon but oh well!

[RangerJoe]

Please read th Air guide here https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3&t=396274

Unfortunately you picked on one of the strongest and best air unit the allies have at the beginning of the war. The flying tigers have been at it for years in China and are better pilots than most IJA pilots and well lead, not so much the IJN. The H81-A3 is armoured and quicker than all but the Tojo. It is superior to the Nate and Oscar on a par with the Tojo with the Zero being the best the Japanese have. No Japanese plane is armoured. Result is you will loose more ac and pilots.

The other problem is small and altitude. The Tojo unit is too small to have any impact. Keep sweeps at the best maneuver altitude the ac has and make sure your leaders and pilots have good air skill. You will wear them down.

The other thing you can do is catch them on the ground to stop them flying.

A wonderful guide that I made sure to look through when I was learning more about the air war! I think I understand most of the factors going into the outcomes but it always seems like altitude is the main factor when resolving dogfights. That of course makes sense given that air combat is largely a battle of potential energies, but I guess I don't really see the point of sweeping with my Zeroes at 20k alt where they're more maneuverable when they seem to get the "from behind" bonus much more when I set them at 25 or 30k.

Check the difference in speed and climb ratings. The Zoom and Boom tactics need to be understood.

[Chris21wen]

It should be pointed out that no one knows other than the programmers what the algorithm is for air combat, if they do I never seen it. All the stuff mentioned here plays a part but which is more important has been worked out by obcervation and what has been writen in the manual and this forum. What works best for one ac type will not necessarily work for another and then it depends greatly on the type of ac you are coming up against. Does maneuvre outweight speed or climb? I do not know but you can bet there'll be as many differeant opinions as there are players.

The only real know factors I know off in the air war throughout the entirity of the game is escorts should be at the same height as the strike mission and have the same target, and fighters are used at their best maneuvre height all things being equal.

[RangerJoe]

One thing that has been mentioned, if the attacker has a speed advantage then the opponents maneuverability may be halved.

That may reflect something odd in that the F4F-4 Wildcat was more maneuverable than the A6M2 Zero at higher speeds due to the sturdier construction of the Wildcat.

https://militaryhistorynow.com/2021/01/ ... warplanes/

https://www.historynet.com/grumman-f4f- ... ld-war-ii/

[Sardaukar]

Not to mention US planes would usually out-dive Japanese planes. Japanese plane controls did tend to stiffen in dive and thus changing direction of dive often succeed in evasion.

That is if one was not too low to dive.

[RangerJoe]

Not to mention US planes would usually out-dive Japanese planes. Japanese plane controls did tend to stiffen in dive and thus changing direction of dive often succeed in evasion.

That is if one was not too low to dive.

That the Japanese carburetors were not pressurized did not help when they dove are were inverted did not help either.