Do You Think Virtual Tours Make Good Demos

[David Heath]

Hi Guys

As many of you know we are trying to make demos when it is possible to show you our games. This is not always possible with games like Uncommon Valor. Our Virtual Tours are more of a way to show you some of the depth available We like to know what you think of one of our Virtual Tours in general. We also like to know if you find it gives you enough information to make a purchase.

We currently have Virtual Tour for Highway to the Reich which can be found at the following URL http://www.highwaytothereich.com/VirtTour.asp

Please feel free to post a your comments here thanks to everyone for your help and support.

David

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Hello David, just watched that Virtual Tour (yeah I know I have not actually watched it before now hehe).

Aside from the fact I think it did a fine job illustrating the game itself, it missed one key area of concern for a wargamer, "will I be able to play it?"

The FAQ section of the game's own page doesn't provide this info in what I call a clear and easy to locate manner either. It took me a few minutes to rustle this up.

System Requirements

Windows 98SE / ME / 2000 / XP
DirectX 8
Pentium II 500 Mhz CPU
64MB RAM ( 128 recommended )
Direct X compatible Soundcard
8MB Video Graphics Card 16 BIT Color
8x CD-ROM
400MB free Hard Disc space
Game Data

Complexity: Medium
Field of Play: Operational
Historical Period: WW2
Theatre: Western Front
Unit Scale: Regiments units
Game Play: pausable continuous time
Players: 2
AI: Either sides
TCP/IP: yes
PBEM: no

When I am checking out a game, first thing I want to know, is is there a point to my giving a damn if I like it or not. As it currently stands, I have seen some very flashy really neat "videos presentations for games" and all of them fail to actually get down to the business of discussing if the player is even going to have any way to play it or not.

Now granted, this games HTTR has what I think most would call currently modest requiremements. But still it is a valid point. As there are a lot of wargames out there, that most definitely exceed my computers functional capacity.

System specs are perhaps something that should be directly addressed in the virtual tour.
It should be illustrated what a person will get out of using a minimum requirement as well as an optimal set up, and whether any OSs have been shown to have limitations.

I for instance can technically run Battlefield 1942 on my computer, it's just not worth it. But I have seen it run on my local friends smokin hot gamer's PC, and I can see why a lot of people (that have good systems) will like the game.

I think that people looking to get a game, want to be completely assured, that the game will actually run when they get it.

As for the polish of the HTTR Tour, I think it was well enough done. Wargames live or die on how well they challenge us. I think any competent wargamer can glean the required insight from a Tour just as well as from a demo.

I was sold with the predessesor to HTTR when I first encountered it merely by looking at the demo for 5 minutes. But I would have gained the same level of interest from the Tour as well.
Some wargames will by the nature of their design (as you seem to express equally as well as I am saying here myself) just not tell the gamer anything useful from a playable demo.
I would never have gotten any useful data from a demo of say The Operational Art of War (even though I have a demo for it eh), simply because the game is too complex.

Might just be semantics too. I think a lot of gamers want several differing things from a demo, which are not always conducive to demonstrating the game usefully.
I have seen comments that smell of a person wanting the demo to act as a micro tutorial to see if they like the basic game design.

Me, all a demo often demonstrates, is whether I like the interface.

[Marc von Martial]

The FAQ section of the game's own page doesn't provide this info in what I call a clear and easy to locate manner either. It took me a few minutes to rustle this up.

[&:]

When I click on the FAQ link at www.highwaytothereich.com the System and Game specs are there?

[brent_2]

Virtual tour....I like it!

This may not be the best game for me to judge it on though as I was very interested in it anyway

Looking at each of the game's features in turn is good, it reminded me a little bit of the original Close Combat tutorials

I would suggest using some of the in-game sounds at some point instead of just the music track...the static sound is there between frames I know, but some others - weapons sounds at the orders screen to suggest an attack order or something

Looking forward to seeing more

[brent_2]

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

The FAQ section of the game's own page doesn't provide this info in what I call a clear and easy to locate manner either. It took me a few minutes to rustle this up.

[&:]

When I click on the FAQ link at www.highwaytothereich.com the System and Game specs are there?

they're there, but I can see looking at the features section, or even the support section for that info too. It probably depends on what makes someone look for that information.

for me when I'm looking at something for the first time I'm looking at the features (which is why the virtual tour is good in my book), if I don't find the info there I will read the FAQ at some point if it is something that really stands out as something I need to know.

I go and look in the support section after something doesn't seem right, like I did for Railroad Tycoon, just to see if I screwed something up - or I didn't have something the basic game specs called for.

I see that you have the info in the FAQ section or features section of the websites for most games, so based on my logic above, you're OK. (like my opinion lets you sleep better Marc. [:'(] heh)

[Hertston]

I think demos proper make better demos [8D]

That said, I recall what Arjuna said about the RDoA demo, and he may well have a point. Where a demo isn't appropriate, a virtual tour seems a good second choice. It's probably worth doing even when there is a demo... I suspect lots of folks who wouldn't bother downloading 100 meg+ demos would happily take the five minute tour instead.

[Mr.Frag]

Anything with a manual more then 20 pages is probably better served with a feature tour showing what can be done and showing the game in action.

The Highway to the Reich tour is an excellent example of what can be done and shows enough clearly to let you know if the game is to your tastes or not.

A demo of HTTR would probably cause more bad press then good press because it really needs a good read of the manual and multiple attempts through the tutorials to give you a good feel, something not likely to happen in a demo.

Having pulled hundreds of demos in my time, I can honestly say that a lot of them actually TURNED me off the real thing because it was feature limited or cut down in scale, resulting in a feeling of bordom quickly which turned me away from it at the store.

[John David]

The use of Flash as a Virtual Tour engine has great potential. I agree that with games like UV, a Demo would be impractical. However,with the type of presentation that was used for the H2H Tour, an addition of an actual game turn or 2 would add to the presentation.

Since the files that Flash produces to create it's movies are relatively very small for the amount of information packed into them, I think you can add these "Game Turns" into the download presentation.

This would also address the problem of the limited feature or cut scenes in many demos that Mr.Frag mentioned in the above post, by showing more of the game as it truly is, instead of squeezing it down to fit a demo release.

Flash is a great tool for this kind of presentation so keep using it and expand the Virtual Tour with it!

JD

[JeF]

Without the RDoA demo, I may never have bought AA. I like to buy games from a demo, because need to be rather sure of what I buy. I don't want to loose my time and my money.

But I do agree that the demo should be good, near to perfect to hit the potential market. RDoA was good for me, but it seems it turned off a lot of others. And it nearly turned me off.
I needed to see if I could at least win a scenario. It took me nearly two months (yes !) and the second demo version (the first was too restricive to let you finish a scenario).

Don't get me wrong, the Virtual Tour is good and useful. In the HttR Virtual Tour I regret that we don't see the movement of units. It is where HttR shines after all, movement of AI controlled units.

All in all, nothing replaces a good demo. But a bad demo does much worse than any bad review. IMHO, the perfect demo are the CM demos. Complete games, full featured, but only two, rather limited, scenarios. But you cannot do that with HttR for example. For HttR, it better be an interactive tutorial with a single scenario you can play. This takes time of course.

These were my 2 cents. A bit complicated I'm afraid.

JeF.
PS: I'd buy Battlefields! without a demo, provided there is a reasonably detailed AAR that shows how it plays.

[David Heath]

Guys

Thanks for all the great feedback... please keep it coming.

David

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Marc as brent appears to have suggested, yes, I was merely commenting, that I thought the FAQ section was not where I expected to see system specs, thus it took me a while to decide to look there for them.

[Sarge]

Run with it David, I like the idea of it. I think you guys did a great job on the VT of HTTR. Sure it helps with the guys out there that have dial up to.

[Fred98]

In the perfect world I would prefer a demo.

But there are many problems with demos so a virtual tour is much superior.

You could make virtual tours for all the current games.

Keep them coming
-

[degen]

I liked the virtual tour as it gave me a good overview of the game's features. The downside is that it does not give a feeling for the gameplay like a demo might. However, my experience with demos is that many are full of bugs. A well done demo, like Battlefield 1942, can sell a game, but a poorly done demo can turn people off from it. Thus, unless the demo is done properly, don't bother with it, because a bad one will not make a sale.

At this point, I would use the virtual tour over a demo, except possibly for Combat Leader, which I think merits a demo. But my advice would be to make the demo simple, highly playable, and fun, to get people to play it repeatedly and enhance the selling value.

[David Heath]

Hi Guys

Well the fact is it was not Matrix that came up with the idea or design it was Mark "MarkShot" Kratzer who did. It really is a great idea and the credit fully goes to him. Mark runs his own computer company and his Virtual Tour shows that he knows what he is doing.

David

[Tactics]

It is NOT a good demo. The virtual tour is nice, but IMO its just a glorified screenshot.

[Guz]

I would suggest adding screens where You see the orders being placed and acted on with results. Something more for a feel for the game(s). Since I already play HTTR maybe I'm a bit biased. Heck, what about displaying an engagement with commentary? Would that be easier then making a demo?

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

I think I am suggesting somethign similar to Guz. The Tour was good at showing features, but a demo shows the game "running".

Some of the qualities of some wargames only come out when it is actually running. Perhaps something that showed "how the game runs" would enhance the Tour.

Maybe an atypical turn as seen while running in actual mode would assist.

[Reiryc]

Virtual tour is nice if a regular demo isn't possible.

[UndercoverNotChickenSalad]

I watched the httr virtual tour and thought it was a very good concept and very well executed. Nice work, guys.