Confused???

[actrade]

I cannot figure out what I'm doing wrong here. Putting together a TF as per Kull's spread sheet. Note how my 13,600 endurance cargo ships not only can't get there, but are showing 358 hexes as a one way range that is actually about 177. I'm tired but for the life of me can't figure this one out. See attached pics. First one is leaving home port as SF, second puts it at Sydney, which is a one way trip and isn't acting like one.

EDIT: I even tried setting full refuel with no joy.

[Platoonist]

Hmmm. Not getting the same issue here.

Full Refuel.jpg (72.17 KiB) Viewed 930 times

[btd64]

Your waypoints maybe putting your ships over. Set the waypoints to a base with fuel and full refueling. Plus ignore the red after you do this. Note that Pearl Harbor maybe your only fuel station until you move some fuel and build ports in the South Pacific....GP

[Platoonist]

Yeah, I'd set it to 'Clear All Waypoints' and see if that changes anything.

[actrade]

Ok, removed the waypoint and at least the (177) one way range shows up correctly now. However, even if I set full refuel at Sydney, still no joy. I did notice that Sydney currently has about 63,000 tons docked of 128,000 capacity. My TF is about 43,000. Does the computer account for what's currently docked (even if it has orders to move from Sydney) or what's incoming? Could that be the reason? There is 125000 fuel at Sydney so I don't think that's the problem.

[Platoonist]

In your last image the home port is still San Francisco. Try changing it to Sydney again.

[RangerJoe]

It does not matter if you have refueling points since the fuel may not be there when the task force arrives. Don't worry, be happy. Send the TFs but if the Japanese submarines are around the Hawaiian then avoid the area.

[actrade]

In your last image the home port is still San Francisco. Try changing it to Sydney again.

If I change it to Sydney, all is well, but that's not what I want to do and again, it should have plenty of endurance to get to Sydney with just a minimal refuel to get back....

[actrade]

It does not matter if you have refueling points since the fuel may not be there when the task force arrives. Don't worry, be happy. Send the TFs but if the Japanese submarines are around the Hawaiian then avoid the area.

I just don't understand why this is showing red. I have ships going from LA to Sydney and back with similar endurance with no issues. It's like I can't refuel at Sydney for some reason?

[Platoonist]

The red numbers are there as a warning for you. That's all they are. The TF commander is giving you a fuel report based on the current situation, not what may happen in the future because in a war the future is not a certain thing. The TF commander does not take into account what amount of fueling may happen at Sydney because by the time the task force gets to Sydney there may not be any fuel there at all. Heck, it might even be in Japanese hands. Basically, it's the way the game has been designed.

[Chris21wen]

The info is correct. The inportant thing to realise is possible refueling stops, either at waypoints, destination nor RAS (by anoher TF) are never part of the calculation. Perhaps the oddest aspect of this info is RAS (by the TF itself) is part of the calculation. Try adding some more DD and watch the red numbers go down or up if you remove them. As Platoonist said, things change. If a TF does refuel then the numbers will change to reflect this.

The first two numbers are the round trip distance based on the overall enduranced of the ships in the TF. The green number is the actual distance to the destination following the route plotted (possible waypoints). Times two the distance (177x2 = 354) and you'll see how close to empty the TF will be if no refuelling occurs. However the endurance is red so beleive it.

I cannot remember what the percent is to make the endurance turn red.

[actrade]

Ok, last post on this. So, is the computer telling me that this TF cannot make it to Sydney or not? It is about 177 hexes away so well within the endurance of the ships (except for the DD, which will return to port IIRC) so I believe that's not the case. I know there is tons of fuel in Sydney, so as long as it can make it there it should be ok coming back assuming Sydney is still under my control and has fuel available, right?

So if I understand this correctly, you will get a red warning if you can't make the round trip, but will need to manually calculate (or just change the home port temporarily to your destination) to see if it has enough fuel to get there. After that, it's a matter of what fuel is available and who owns the port, correct?

[BBfanboy]

It looks to me like the confusion is over the calculation of the fuel needed for the TF to return to home base. The game cannot tell if you have other plans for the TF so it assumes that after a mission it will immediately return to home port from the one set as destination.

For trips from the US to Australia and New Zealand that always means there is a shortfall in fuel because the ships have enough to get to destination but not enough to get all the way back again. The solution is to refuel enough to get back to the home port, or make plans to change the home port to a closer one (like Cape Town) when the TF has unloaded.

But Australia and New Zealand are starving for fuel so refueling there is not a good thing when there are alternatives. The best solution is to set refueling at a waypoint that has plenty of fuel - Pearl Harbor or another hub you have stocked with fuel. And you do not need to fully refuel. You can save fuel stocks on your island bases by choosing "minimal refuel" or "tactical refuel". The game will calculate the right amount to make the round trip and put the complete trip in green when the refueling takes place.

What's the difference in refuel levels? Minimal refuel is just enough to support a trip (+about 10%) at cruise speed. Tactical refuel is enough to support a small amount of high speed movement, such as fleeing from an enemy sub. And because ships can be sunk in transit, I prefer to do my refueling waypoint on the way back to home port so the minimum amount of fuel is lost with the ship.

[actrade]

Great points. Thanks for clearing this up for me.