Noob questions about concrete stuff and design philosophy

[aaminoff]

I recently picked up Warplan on Steam. I've played a lot of grand strategy WW2 games, playtester credits on Eurofront and Totaler Krieg / Axis Empires. It is always interesting to see how another designer approaches the same topic.

I ran through an Axis playthrough against the AI as far as winter 40 and started an Allied one. I'm using the base 1939 scenario, which brings me to my first question:

What is the motivation for the alternate 1939 scenarios, that is to say, naval stacking limit of 3? The winter one I can understand, presumably folks wanted more efficiency loss for the Germans in winter 41. But the naval stacking limit seems very arbitrary. Would it not greatly favor the Axis who have fewer ships and can now fight on equal terms against British fleets of 3?

I noticed that the Germans start with a couple units with 50% experience rather than the 70% all other German troops have. The French seem to have uniform 40%, but the Brits and the Italians have some inf corps at higher vs lower experience in their starting forces. The unit IDs do not necessarily tell a story in this regard: the 1st HG (Home Guard I presume) in Leeds is 35% while the 2nd HG in Edinburgh is 50%. If you combine them with infantry of a different experience, does the resulting unit have the weighted average of the ingredients? What is the design intent here? What do experienced players generally do with these units?

The British (and Canadian) large inf corps have 6 operations points and the motorized infantry NATO symbol, while small inf corps and divs have 5 ops points and the non-motorized infantry symbol. So if you add a div to a small corps, the corps gains an Operations point? Seems odd, and I can't think of a way to exploit this. What is the reason for this small difference?

The British are prohibited by scenario rules from building armor and mech in 39, I gather from reading the forums that this is a balance adjustment, otherwise the land forces in France can be too tough. However, they start with the WDF in Egypt. Can they satisfy the 6 units in Egypt another way and send the WDF to fight in France? Do Allied players generally do this as a standard thing? (Assuming that you are playing with standard restrictions on Italy entering the war.)

I noticed that Romania has a fleet unit, a DD. It looks like Romania could build its own Landing Craft to amphibious invade an ungarrisoned Sevastopol or Batumi? Or could a German corps do that from a Black Sea port? If a German corps were to amphibious invade in the Black Sea, would it use German Landing Craft? (that would seem like a bug.)

Based on some AARs I have read, it seems like fleets are not very good at intercepting invasions. Does intercepting enemy naval moves including invasions at all require being at sea, which costs oil?

The Nordic Iron Ore convoy route through coastal Norway: is it used to transport the 25 resources from Sweden to Germany all the time, or only when the Baltic is frozen? It looks like there is a rail line all the way from Kiruna down to Malmö or Karlskrona, are those frozen in winter, or is the use of the Nordic Iron Ore convoy a special case?

More of a philosophy question: Most ww2 games that I can think of have some sort of Soviet border defense rule requiring some Soviet forces to be set up on the border, allowing them to be easily overrun at the start of Barbarossa. Many games also have explicit surprise attack rules. It appears that in Warplan the Soviets get defeated in 41 mostly due to the wide experience differential, the Allied player is free to set up their forces anywhere in Soviet territory they want. What motivated that choice?

I appreciate that Warplan makes a concerted effort to model the Battle of the Atlantic. However is it really true that sunk Merchant Shipping has no effect on British production until you hit the magic threshold of 153 Merchant Marine or so? Such that there is a cliff that until you reach it British are really OK but after that they will be in an economic death spiral? Or is the effect on British production that they have to commit production to rebuilding sunk Merchant Shipping and Escorts?

Airborne: I set up for an invasion of Oslo. Having previously conquered Denmark, I railed a Fallschirmjaeger to Copenhagen. I used a supply truck to get it up to 101% effectiveness. However, I still could not find a button to air drop the unit. What else is required? Does it have to be 100% at the beginning of the turn, without the supply truck? (But I am pretty sure it was the following turn and still no air drop button). Does the hex it is sitting on have to be a valid air base? (But I am pretty sure Copenhagen is). Does it have to not already have another air unit because of the 1 air unit stacking limit? Or is it required to have an air unit on it for escort?

That is all I can think of for now. Thanks to Alvaro for a very impressive effort and all the folks on this forum for providing a lot of interesting reading.

[AlvaroSousa]

The alternate scenarios are just what players wanted. The players and I found out the original 9 stack fleets where too powerful. So the “small fleet” scenario was done and will be the default from now on. It plays much better than the original with 9 fleets IMO and many players. Naval stacking of 3 over 9 allows for more strategy. It favors the Allies slightly to have lower stacks. This way the Germans can run around with all their ships in one stack making it harder for the Allies to find them as they have to use a large stack which is worse for finding then a bunch of small stacks. See Hunt for the Bismarck for this reflection.

When combining units the experienced is averaged. Experience levels are defined by current tactics, training, and morale.

UK and USA units had plenty of trucks and they use oil. German and Russian units were not very motorized.

UK can do what they want. But if they remove troops from Egypt then Italy can come in early. The decision for the later tank development comes from historical production and balance.

Germans can build landing craft and do that as well. Not a bug. You shouldn’t be foolish to leave big ports open to invasion and paratroopers as the Russians. Even if they do invade a minor port holding it and supplying is another story.

Fleets are good at intercepting invasions. Player just don’t put them out to sea to intercept them. But say an invasion lands. Now the fleet can block the port of supplies as well and prevent other units from coming in. Invasions can be done but without naval superiority they are incredibly costly and unless your opponent is foolish enough to do nothing they should eventually win.

When Frozen.

They have some garrison limits on the border. Forcing a specific set like in WiF just creates issues if you screw it up and ruins the game. Recently a bump in Soviet defense was done to help them not get beaten so easily.

It does have an effect. UK does lose some production and is forced to build escorts and MMs. If they don’t they will have none by 1941.

There is no airdrop button. Just select the unit and hover over the area you want to drop. It will walk otherwise to a nearby area. You will see a paratrooper symbol over a hex that is capable of airdrops.

Final Note: It takes a very long time to balance a game as large as this. I start with history and adjust from there. Russia is the hardest front to balance. Historically there is zero chance the Germans could beat the Russians as history was played till 1941. But you need to allow that in a game like this while be it a small chance. The main goal, and the most fun game, is one that goes to 1945 to the very last turn in a nail biting ending. That is the goal I am pushing for.

[stjeand]

To add my opinion...wanted or not.


Fleet wise, many felt the every just moved around with large fleets making them difficult to destroy. There is no bonus to sending out one ship over 9...While the smaller number of ships works great for some...it highly overpowers the Italian navy. But that is just my opinion...they probably need their experience dropped to 30% or so since they were not naval oriented.

There are a few units with lower experience to start...they are more for game flavor. A few weaker French and UK units...and one German...Honestly does not make too much of a difference.

The assumption with the US and UK are that when they form a large corps they are provided trucks to support them. When they switch to a division or small corps those trucks are removed. Trucks use oil...not sure I would want every division using an oil to move.

Yes the UK can move another unit down to the Egypt and move the WDF out...

I have never built landing craft as any minor country...nor would it. I just build them as Germany...and they can use them in the Romanian ports...



The only Garrison limit is German enforced...Russia does not have one...though it should. The Russian play can pull all their units back and circle Moscow if they wanted. NOT wise but they could.
Germany has to have 6 units within 10 hexes of Russia...if I remember or they move closer to war.

Also for the airdrop...
Be sure you have an air unit within range...I pretty sure that is required. It does not "use" the unit but there must be one nearby. Any type will suffice.
Also Copenhagen might be to far for the unit to drop into Norway. I usually go to the northern most part of Denmark to...though I could be off by a hex...I normally drop just above the Norwegian unit.
I have a love and hate relationship with airborne...once you use them it can take a year to use them again due to supply limitations in getting back to 100%...unless you want to use tons of supply trucks.

[aaminoff]

Thank you both for the interesting and informative replies.

Re the "small fleets" scenarios, I ask because the list of scenarios is almost the first thing you see when you fire up the game for the first time. Is there an old forum thread where I could read the discussion that led to the creation of these alternate scenarios? I tried searching but of course there are a zillion results in the Opponents Wanted folder...

So, as far as I can tell the game imposes relatively few "political" restrictions. Once Romania is in the war for example, nothing prevents as many German corps as you like to be railed there and set up on the border. Is there a limit on German corps in Finland? Do they draw port supply from Helsinki, or is Helsinki an unlimited supply source for all Axis units, not just Finns?

While I am thinking of Finland, I suppose there is nothing preventing as much (Finnish) force as you want from setting up in the far north near Petsamo-Murmansk? I assume that similar to the Nordic Ore convoy, the Arctic lend-lease convoy can only go to Murmansk when Archangelsk etc are frozen?

It is interesting that not yet at war major powers (Italy, USSR, US) are active, do their own builds, can move around within their own territory. I assume not but have not checked - can at-war Germans move through still-neutral Italy? Can neutral US forces sail out into the Atlantic while the US is at peace? I would guess so to be consistent with Italy being able to sail out into the Med while at peace. Likewise I assume but have not checked that neutral major powers can not transit through at-war major powers, so Italy could not independently (without declaring war on France & Britain) declare war on, say, Sweden and then walk through Germany to attack it?

A detailed question about air units: When you hit "R", a circle appears. But we are on a hex map. I am pretty sure that on my own turn air mission range is counted in hexes, meaning an air unit with range 6 can hit any hex in a large hexagonal-shaped area 13 hexes in diameter. If so, what does the circle represent? Is there some sort of modified calculation of radius that gets away from the hex map? Is that used for reaction during the enemy turn?

Is interception range for air units the same as their range, particularly for anti-naval? So can you defend against Sealion by basing British bombers in anti-naval full support stance within their range of sea hexes in the English Channel but out of range of German airbase-striking aircraft based in France?

Regarding balance, I hear you, I've been there. Many long email threads arguing with Darren Kilfara and Thomas Prowell about Dai Senso. It is very very tough to get right; I am impressed by the number of AARs I see that go the full distance to 1945.

[stjeand]

There was a really old thread regarding the small fleets.
I know the main purpose was to break up your fleets. Rarely did countries put every ship they had in 1 fleet and just head to sea.
Perhaps in the next version it will be easier to find a fleet with 6 ships than it is with 2...as it should be. I don't think that matters.

For Finland, I think Germany has full supply there...same for Romania.
The main issue with Finland is that the weather is so bad that the units are crippled when summer hits so they have to "pause" longer than in say the south or Central regions. Honestly never seen someone put say 10 German units in Finland...attacking from there is tough due to the terrain compared to Russis direct from Poland / Romainia.
Most players pack up Romania...

The issue by Murmansk is they will not have supply when they get outside of Murmansk...the line is too short. They might get one or two shots at Murmansk then they have to retreat...and due to movement they Russians can rail in better units.
It is great to take Murmansk...but not as easy as it would appear due to supply.
And yes when Frozen Murmansk is where supplies must land. Easiest is to just cut the rail from Murmansk to Moscow.

Yes...any active country get to build even not at war...though their production is usually hampered.
Germany can ONLY move through Italy when they are freed up to declare war and join the Axis. Normally when Germany gets next to Paris...
Italy's navy can only move ports while at peace.

Hmm...I don't play much with the air circle...I believe there are two...one is how far they can move and one is how far they can attack / react. Movement is double...because they can perform 2 missions. Either move twice...so double hexes...1 Move and 1 mission or 2 missions...
Reaction is the base range for any intercept. If ships END a move within 10 hexes of a bomber they can be attacked IF that bomber is set to attempt to intercept.
Yes you can base your UK bombers in the south to guard sealion.
BUT remember they only react where the unit ends movement and if that is within their range.

[aaminoff]

It looks like the USSR starts the 1939 scenario with 2 armies in Leningrad and Murmansk. Does anything prevent the player from moving those out and using them elsewhere? The Leningrad one perhaps you want to leave there to defend Leningrad.

It is neat that Canada is represented as a British-allied minor country. Are Australian, New Zealand, Indian, or South African forces brought in by events? Or are they represented by UK builds?

Against a human opponent, is it normal to micro-manage ones air unit mode? That is to say, carefully put the air units in mission only mode and then only switch them to full support when you specifically want ground support in an in-range ground combat? And I guess you have a big decision to make on defense, whether to put air in support mode or not before your opponents turn?

Also re micro-management, against the AI in my game as Axis I kept forgetting to use Supply Trucks. During Barbarossa, against a human opponent, is it good enough to just go through all the armor and have each one use a supply truck each turn, or does one need to micro it?

I noticed when I tried to ship a Brit to France that German air flew across neutral Belgium and Netherlands to intercept. I suppose that is a bug, though a very minor one.

Subs attacking convoys: The North Atlantic and South Atlantic convoys seem like obvious targets and are pretty easy to get to for subs. But if the Brits allocate 10 escorts to each, can a canny sub avoid those escorts by making it to African Coast or some other convoy route? I suppose once Barbarossa happens the Arctic convoy is pretty easy to get to for subs as well.

My overall impression is that there are not a lot of guard-rails for the players. The game does not make Sealion impossible, the British player has to plan for it and deploy forces to prevent it. There is an element of hidden bidding: both sides invest in the BoA, and you can lose either if you over-invest (and the other side bid nothing) or under-invest. Similarly the game allows you to not make the mistakes the historical actors did.

[sveint]

I'll take a stab at these.

It looks like the USSR starts the 1939 scenario with 2 armies in Leningrad and Murmansk. Does anything prevent the player from moving those out and using them elsewhere? The Leningrad one perhaps you want to leave there to defend Leningrad.

Use these armies as you wish.

It is neat that Canada is represented as a British-allied minor country. Are Australian, New Zealand, Indian, or South African forces brought in by events? Or are they represented by UK builds?

It's unfortunate that Canada is it's own country. At this scale it would better if Canada was just under the global "UK" banner, like Australia, etc

Against a human opponent, is it normal to micro-manage ones air unit mode? That is to say, carefully put the air units in mission only mode and then only switch them to full support when you specifically want ground support in an in-range ground combat? And I guess you have a big decision to make on defense, whether to put air in support mode or not before your opponents turn?

Yes, it's an absolute must. You'll lose the air war badly against a human if you don't.

Also re micro-management, against the AI in my game as Axis I kept forgetting to use Supply Trucks. During Barbarossa, against a human opponent, is it good enough to just go through all the armor and have each one use a supply truck each turn, or does one need to micro it?

Supply trucks are entirely optional. I'd never use them as you suggest, best to use very selectively when absolutely needed.

I noticed when I tried to ship a Brit to France that German air flew across neutral Belgium and Netherlands to intercept. I suppose that is a bug, though a very minor one.

Limit of the engine I suppose. Just imagine they followed the coasts instead.

Subs attacking convoys: The North Atlantic and South Atlantic convoys seem like obvious targets and are pretty easy to get to for subs. But if the Brits allocate 10 escorts to each, can a canny sub avoid those escorts by making it to African Coast or some other convoy route? I suppose once Barbarossa happens the Arctic convoy is pretty easy to get to for subs as well.

The war of the Atlantic is a game of cat and mouse. Or brute force. Or it doesn't happen at all. German player decides.

My overall impression is that there are not a lot of guard-rails for the players. The game does not make Sealion impossible, the British player has to plan for it and deploy forces to prevent it. There is an element of hidden bidding: both sides invest in the BoA, and you can lose either if you over-invest (and the other side bid nothing) or under-invest. Similarly the game allows you to not make the mistakes the historical actors did.

This is what makes WarPlan such a fantastic game. You can do unhistorical feats such as SeaLion, but they are far from easy to pull off. Psycology and strategic surprise is extremely important.

[aaminoff]

I want to make sure I am understanding the BoA correctly. (It is very cool that WarPlan is the only grand-strategic WW2 game I know of that tries to include the BoA)

There is a discontinuity between 9 and 10 escorts - 9 escorts protect 45 merchants while 10 escorts protect *all* merchants. For this reason it is sometimes worth allocating 11 or 12 escorts to avoid a sunk escort dropping the number before 10. Do I have that right?

CVs, DDs, and land-based air (any land-based air? Does it have to be in support mode and targetting naval?) can add % to the escorts defending against subs in range. I think I read that the sub-hunter bonus applies to any sub fleet in range, where range is the range of the air unit, or for an Allied fleet 24 hexes. In addition, the Allied fleet must be on a convoy hex, but I am pretty sure that regardless of which convoy it is sitting on, the fleet provides its sub-hunter bonus against all subs within 24 hexes. Is that right? And are we sure that you have to be on a convoy hex or is any ocean hex in range good enough?

I noticed that Convoy Attacks appear to be resolved twice: once at the start of the Allied turn and once at the start of the Axis turn. It also looks like it does not matter if the subs or the fleet have expended both ops points. So that implies that Axis subs can try to move 48 hexes to hit an unexpected convoy, like the Pan-American or Africa Coast, and Allies fleets should on their turn expend both ops points to move within 24 hexes of the subs, and if they can manage to arrange fleets to cover all the convoy zones with 24 hex radii to deny the subs a place to attack with no coverage that would be good. (Of course the sub-hunter bonus is useless without escorts to apply it to). If this is all correct, is there any reason for subs and fleets not to move both ops points every turn? Does it spend more oil?

[CHINCHIN]

In my experience I'll tell you that you should always have at least 10 escorts, and if you put 11 or 12, even better, in case there is a second or third attack on the same line of convoys. It's better to put 0 escorts than 7 for example, because you have more chances of losing escorts, and the effectiveness of the submarines doesn't seem to increase, it even seems that you lose less MM. If there are no escorts, the patrol and CV bonuses have no effect, so the submarines will never have losses.

Submarines are much more effective if they keep one unspent action point. And they attack only once per convoy, if they attack more than once it's because, for example, the UK creates a convoy to send oil to Canada, the game considers that there are two convoys and 2 attacks occur on the same line of convoys, if the US is also sending another convoy to the USSR, a third attack will occur.

[stjeand]

There is a discontinuity between 9 and 10 escorts - 9 escorts protect 45 merchants while 10 escorts protect *all* merchants. For this reason it is sometimes worth allocating 11 or 12 escorts to avoid a sunk escort dropping the number before 10. Do I have that right?

Honestly never noticed this...then again I have not read the guide in a long while.

CVs, DDs, and land-based air (any land-based air? Does it have to be in support mode and targetting naval?) can add % to the escorts defending against subs in range. I think I read that the sub-hunter bonus applies to any sub fleet in range, where range is the range of the air unit, or for an Allied fleet 24 hexes. In addition, the Allied fleet must be on a convoy hex, but I am pretty sure that regardless of which convoy it is sitting on, the fleet provides its sub-hunter bonus against all subs within 24 hexes. Is that right? And are we sure that you have to be on a convoy hex or is any ocean hex in range good enough?

You can test this by looking at the % you get in the reports if I remember...
I am pretty sure you have to be on the route if using naval...the air unit just in range.

I noticed that Convoy Attacks appear to be resolved twice: once at the start of the Allied turn and once at the start of the Axis turn. It also looks like it does not matter if the subs or the fleet have expended both ops points. So that implies that Axis subs can try to move 48 hexes to hit an unexpected convoy, like the Pan-American or Africa Coast, and Allies fleets should on their turn expend both ops points to move within 24 hexes of the subs, and if they can manage to arrange fleets to cover all the convoy zones with 24 hex radii to deny the subs a place to attack with no coverage that would be good. (Of course the sub-hunter bonus is useless without escorts to apply it to). If this is all correct, is there any reason for subs and fleets not to move both ops points every turn? Does it spend more oil?

This is really only 1 attack...the message on the Axis turn is just that.

BUT always leave 1 movement on your submarines since they do almost no damage when they use all their movement.

[aaminoff]

And are we sure that you have to be on a convoy hex or is any ocean hex in range good enough?

You can test this by looking at the % you get in the reports if I remember...

I tested and yes indeed, a fleet has to be on a convoy route (any convoy route) to provide the bonus.