[1436] Question about CEC

[thewood1]

This might end up a tech support question, but for now its a general gameplay question. I am very inexperienced in adding more complex weapons, comms, and sensors. I wanted to see if I could build a support ship with Aegis CEC-based Mk 70 PDS pod to launch SM-X missiles. I added a couple 2-way Aegis missile datalinks, an 8-cell Mk 41 pod (SM-6), and added a radiating DDG that is CEC capable. Have a Tu-95 fly over the ships. In theory, the DDG can illuminate the Bear and the support ship can launch the missile.

In the attached scenario, the support ship refuses to fire and the manual attack message is that the ship must have a firing-quality lock itself or from a CEC-capable unit. I can't get the ship to fire through multiple configurations. This can very well be operator error. Just looking for advice.

btw, when you start the scenario, it'll say scenario over. Just click through it.

[thewood1]

So I guess that's a no.

[Nikel]

The SM-6 will be fired if you add AEGIS to the Coronado.

[FifthDomain]

I don't think CEC is working properly at the minute, it only partially worked before. I'm in the process of setting up a full test scenario to demonstrate it properly, i have been slowed down by the vast amount of papers on the subject. In your scenario you had not added CEC data link to the LPD when i did, it didn't make a difference anyway. But if i add an AN/SPG-62 to the Coronado and remove all other sensors it will fire then but i think it's just getting data from the SPG-62 as opposed to CEC from the Arleigh Burke. Before if the ships were close enough the would share the data (in game CEC is listed LOS so that was correct). Also before (i'm saying at least before beta but can not specify an exact build) if you had a E-2D Hawkeye with its radar on that would allow missiles to launch, but only with the radar switched on, when in reality with the radar off it should be a node passing the data up and down between any CEC unit (Land, Sea & Air) within LOS of it. It's currently not doing it either way right now.

[thewood1]

The SM-6 will be fired if you add AEGIS to the Coronado.

There are three Aegis datalinks/comms already there. Are you saying I need a different one?

[thewood1]

I don't think CEC is working properly at the minute, it only partially worked before. I'm in the process of setting up a full test scenario to demonstrate it properly, i have been slowed down by the vast amount of papers on the subject. In your scenario you had not added CEC data link to the LPD when i did, it didn't make a difference anyway. But if i add an AN/SPG-62 to the Coronado and remove all other sensors it will fire then but i think it's just getting data from the SPG-62 as opposed to CEC from the Arleigh Burke. Before if the ships were close enough the would share the data (in game CEC is listed LOS so that was correct). Also before (i'm saying at least before beta but can not specify an exact build) if you had a E-2D Hawkeye with its radar on that would allow missiles to launch, but only with the radar switched on, when in reality with the radar off it should be a node passing the data up and down between any CEC unit (Land, Sea & Air) within LOS of it. It's currently not doing it either way right now.

Aren't these datalinks that support CEC?

Screenshot 2024-09-24 181933.jpg (186.86 KiB) Viewed 1369 times

[thewood1]

I guess the devs can move this to Tech Support.

[FifthDomain]

No i don't think any of them do.

It seems the Lock-On After Launch (LOAL) - CEC-Capable part for missiles is working ok so if you get a missile in the air a Hawkeye and/or other Ships can guide it to target. This is dependant on the launching unit having a radar contact on the target first and seems dependant on the radar used. CEC targeting data does not appear to be passing through between them.

[Nikel]

If you add AEGIS sensor to the Coronado, the red text in the Manual Engage Target changes to DLZ automatically. And it will fire when the Bear is nearer.

A.png (34.06 KiB) Viewed 1316 times

MET.png (20.2 KiB) Viewed 1316 times

F.png (40.27 KiB) Viewed 1315 times

[blu3s]

CEC is a tough topic, so trying to keep things as simple as possible.



Basically it's because our CEC at the moment models Sensor to Weapon comm, that it's Forward Pass in the graph, the other CEC (Engage on Remote) is not simulated at the moment (that is what's happening in the scenario). Also since the unit has a mount added, the mount can or cannot be set to allow CEC engagements.


For example if you put the mount of a Typhon bty and set an E-2D you will see CEC in action.



There might be one bug about ships don't allow to use Forward Pass IFC. Logged as 0016283

So yes, we're aware on the flaws in CEC model but take into account the info is very limited and it's not an easy topic.

P.S: All of this will be better implemented with the Comms Overhaul (no ETA but first concpets already made). (Remote Fire since the player or WRA will be who takes the decision to fire it's not needed)

[thewood1]

"If you add AEGIS sensor to the Coronado, the red text in the Manual Engage Target changes to DLZ automatically. And it will fire when the Bear is nearer."

That defeats the entire purpose of the test. Trying to replicate the proven and tested IRL ability to mount Mk41 pods on support ships. They fire the missile based on using the track from a CEC-capable ship. It seems to be one of the main points of modern CEC. Its the USN plan to provide the equivalent of reloads, but the support ship doesn't actually move the missile to the firing ship. As missiles are expended, new support ships rotate into the task force. So I guess CMO just can't do it.

btw, the solution seesm simpler than Blue is stating. I would think if the local datalink, local weapon, and remote tracking ship are CEC capable, you should be able to launch on remote.

[thewood1]

I have seen forward pass work fairly consistently when the launching ship is CEC capable organically and the forward ship is organically CEC capable.

[thewood1]

"Also since the unit has a mount added, the mount can or cannot be set to allow CEC engagements"

Just digested this. So to work CEC, you need a mount, weapon, sensor, and ship to all be CEC enabled right now in CMO? If a CEC sensor is not onboard and the launching ship isn't enabled, no off-platform launch can happen. CEC as its built now in CMO is really only a datalink handoff?

Just making sure I understand.

[blu3s]

For a ship or a facility, you need that your mount has a CEC datalink, i.e the Typhon MRC, if you access the Comms, you'll see the CEC DL for each mount (marked with ^) while the MK41 VLS Cell has not DL attached

For an aircraft you only need that the weapon has a DL with "Supports CEC" flag

[Nikel]

Someone who understand this, and has time, may create a scenario that replicates Figure 14 in this document? Thanks in advance!

https://archive.ll.mit.edu/publications ... issile.pdf

T.png (47.9 KiB) Viewed 1170 times

[thewood1]

Maybe you can try it.

[blu3s]

Someone who understand this, and has time, may create a scenario that replicates Figure 14 in this document? Thanks in advance!

https://archive.ll.mit.edu/publications ... issile.pdf

T.png

The other CEC (Engage on Remote) is not simulated at the moment (that is what's happening in the scenario).

P.S: All of this will be better implemented with the Comms Overhaul (no ETA but first concpets already made). (Remote Fire since the player or WRA will be who takes the decision to fire it's not needed)

[Nikel]

Sorry, you have already answered, radar or ship, it is the same.

What is the source of the graphic?

[blu3s]

https://ndia.dtic.mil/wp-content/upload ... 014745.pdf

Last slide, and the original paper:

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA464249.pdf

[Dimitris]

Is there still a related problem to this? If yes please provide a specific example, not just "CEC doesn't work for me" or somesuch.