Aircraft take off from airports with cratered runways

[Eboreg]

Attached is a save from the Retaliation scenario where I've cratered all of the runways and taxiways at Rafiqui, Mushaf, and Murid to various degrees but manually launching aircraft from them in the scenario editor works just fine. What is going on here?

[thewood1]

In some airfields, the taxiways can be used as runways. This allows limited take off and landing capabilities. Thats not a definitive statement. I juts remembering a similar discussion quite a few years ago.

Sorry...missed you saying taxiways.

[thewood1]

Just looked at Mushaf in the editor.

Screenshot 2024-09-28 185155.jpg (62.17 KiB) Viewed 578 times

[Eboreg]

Just looked at Mushaf in the editor.

Screenshot 2024-09-28 185155.jpg

Honestly, 88% damage used to be enough to prevent all but the lightest fixed-wing aircraft from taking off. Shouldn't that still be the case?

[thewood1]

Not sure about the %, but in your scenario small fighter aircraft with short field capability can take off at limited timing. But larger aircraft like airlines are stuck and listed as waiting for runway. That is how I remember it.

[thewood1]

Just checked...I can't get any aircraft to take off from Mushaf AB. They just recycle the time and say waiting for runway.

I finally got a two JF-17s to take off, but it took a long time to get two airborne. I put a 737 on it and it eventually just resets itself to parked.

[thewood1]

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 8#p4141878

[Eboreg]

Just checked...I can't get any aircraft to take off from Mushaf AB. They just recycle the time and say waiting for runway.

I finally got a two JF-17s to take off, but it took a long time to get two airborne. I put a 737 on it and it eventually just resets itself to parked.

...something is horribly wrong with my installation then.

[thewood1]

Maybe read the thread I posted. JF-17s are consider small aircraft. In fact, if you remove the 88% damaged runway and only leave the 99.9% one, nothing can take off.

[Eboreg]

Maybe read the thread I posted. JF-17s are consider small aircraft. In fact, if you remove the 88% damaged runway and only leave the 99.9% one, nothing can take off.

I... just checked the database viewer and they're considered medium aircraft...

[thewood1]

I'm not sure that listing of damage aligns perfectly with the db definition of aircraft size. My point is that damage levels are slowing some aircraft and stopping others.

I just loaded a bunch of different aircraft and told them to all take off. Looks like anything that requires more than 2000m to take off is out of the rotation.

[Eboreg]

I'm not sure that listing of damage aligns perfectly with the db definition of aircraft size. My point is that damage levels are slowing some aircraft and stopping others.

I just loaded a bunch of different aircraft and told them to all take off. Looks like anything that requires more than 2000m to take off is out of the rotation.

So... the damage has cut off 75% of the runway's effective size...

[thewood1]

I don't know if that's the exact correlation. The thread I posted and is in the updated command doc only specifies approximate damage. I think its abstracted more than just runway length. I'm just showing you the end result I got from testing.

Back to your original post. The runway damage you are seeing is limiting larger aircraft from taking off and is slowing the sortie rates of other aircraft.

[thewood1]

While the source is wiki, multiple sources validate the aftermath of a airfield strike.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Shay ... ile_strike

Migs were flying off the runway within 24 hours. I think it was a total of 60 Tomahawks involved.

[Blast33]

While the source is wiki, multiple sources validate the aftermath of a airfield strike.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Shay ... ile_strike

Migs were flying off the runway within 24 hours. I think it was a total of 60 Tomahawks involved.

This is shooting from the hip and it missed.
You are often sharp on the mark thewood1, but please know the situation on this subject which was one google click away.
The Tomahawks where aimed at something else

https___cdn.cnn.com_cnnnext_dam_assets_170407172009-satellite-imagery-of-bombed-syrian-base-0407.jpg (192.76 KiB) Viewed 422 times

[Blast33]

There was a big discussion a few years back.
The outcome was that runways and taxiways can be cratered but the aircraft still take-off.. But if you target the runway access points nobody will take-off.

In my personal opinion this is a flaw in CMO.
I can understand that in the Cold War many airfields had a runway repair unit, but how many airfields outside the WP and NATO had this?
And that was than, but what is the situation now???
An update on this, if it is technically feasable would be very welcome, because runway cratering was such an important Cold War mission (Tornado's form the UK and Germany for example). But also on Desert Storm missions.
Maybe a slow damage regress would be possible (<24 hrs)

asfdsf.jpg (41.43 KiB) Viewed 418 times

[thewood1]

"While the source is wiki, multiple sources validate the aftermath of a airfield strike"

And that's why you shouldn't stop with Wiki as your only source.

Also, as to needing runway repair teams...You don't need much of a team. Literally large amounts of quick set cement can have most craters fill enough for rough take offs within hours and fast take offs in a day. Every maintenance team in any air force should have enough quickset concrete and a payloader. Its why so many munitions are spent on hangers, munitions, and control towers. Take the attack on H3 in Iraq by Iran. While they did drop some bombs on the runaway, they focused on the aircraft and the control tower. IIRC Iraq stated that it was the control tower facilities that hampered sorties more than runway craters.

[thewood1]

btw, damage to a runway is already automatically reports over time.

[Blast33]

btw, damage to a runway is already automatically reports over time.

I know about the timer, but a timer doesn't help if aircraft still take-off.

Throw some holes in an airfield runway in
German or France or whatever and it will take a while before aircraft will resume operations.

A fully loaded F-16, Mirage or Typhoon don't like potholes...
Even with a quick reaction runway repair your'e out for quite some hours. And that is not the case in CMO.

[Blast33]

Here some real non theory examples...it takes a while!

GZSn5ruXQAAq6st.jpg (92.72 KiB) Viewed 313 times