[FIXED][1468] SUrface group won't attack surface targets

[thewood1]

I have had this issue for several versions now. The Screen group circled in orange has the following settings...

1) Surface targets set to ROE free
2) Opp fire on
3) Multi-mission Tomahawks set to 200 miles and allowed in WRA

I just can't seem to get the surface group to do auto fire on the red circled group. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong?

Screenshot 2024-10-06 134713.jpg (1.21 MiB) Viewed 1071 times

[blu3s]

I change the Doctrine option to "Ignore Plotted Course" to Yes because if is set to No, the SAG will need first to complete the manual course. After a few minutes in game, the SAG starts firing.



There're sometimes issues with autofire, I add this to the internal reports since the SAG should attack much earlier.

Logged 0016302

[thewood1]

I change the Doctrine option to "Ignore Plotted Course" to Yes because if is set to No, the SAG will need first to complete the manual course. After a few minutes in game, the SAG starts firing.



There're sometimes issues with autofire, I add this to the internal reports since the SAG should attack much earlier.

Logged 0016302

I never knew that. I usually have that set to ignore course. It seems an odd feature. If a unit is in range, it should fire, regardless if thats checked or not. That just seems like common sense.

IOW, The the "ignore plotted course" setting is really "ignore everything until you move here". The SAG sees the enemy ships firing at it. But won't defend itself. I honestly never knew that was how it worked.

[thewood1]

I'm not sure your explanation is correct. Check this save out. One of those missile boats gets to within 3nm of that SAG. Its finally engaged by the 57mm on the LCS. Again, its with the 200nm of the Tomahawk WRA, ROE is free, ignore plotted course is set the way you stated, and opp fire is on. I did notice that some SM-6s to hit some of those boats "accidently". But they are fired by the Ford group at aircraft nearby.

[blu3s]

About the doctrine setting of ignore plotted course, it functions as described. For a clearer demonstration, I suggest testing it in a simpler scenario. You’ll find that if it's set to "No," the unit will not attack until it has completed its manually assigned course.

What's happening in some "old" scenarios is that automatic engagement is not working as it should.

I have tested in this scenario, add a new ship with NSM mounts, and put it on free weapons + targets of opportunity, and the unit started firing without problems

[boogabooga]

Here is a clear-cut example of the Auto Engage not working for a ship against a surface target, despite the Ignore Plotted Course Doctrine, although this might be particular to gun mounts.

[thewood1]

About the doctrine setting of ignore plotted course, it functions as described. For a clearer demonstration, I suggest testing it in a simpler scenario. You’ll find that if it's set to "No," the unit will not attack until it has completed its manually assigned course.

What's happening in some "old" scenarios is that automatic engagement is not working as it should.

I have tested in this scenario, add a new ship with NSM mounts, and put it on free weapons + targets of opportunity, and the unit started firing without problems

A) I know it functions as you described it. My point is that that function is not just "ignore course". Its ignore everything.

B) So has some update broken old scenarios? That's a pretty good piece of info to let people know about. I would think that impact every scenario. Is that going to be logged as a bug? At what point in the update path did this break? How far back should we go to fix old scenarios?

[blu3s]

As said as a testing POV is happening sometimes and with different type of weapons, and not always is reproducible. There's no match between the date of the scenario and the issue.

Might be there for a while and yes this was logged internally first and then added each report from the forum to the ticket that is being investigated internally.

[thewood1]

Just my perspective, but I'm hoping this one is a high priority fix. This can potentially impact every scenario in a very material way...country, timeframe, unit type, etc.

btw, I noticed this issue as far back as the actual release version 1328.18. I thought I just didn't have the settings right. So its been around a while.

[rmeckman]

About the doctrine setting of ignore plotted course, it functions as described. For a clearer demonstration, I suggest testing it in a simpler scenario. You’ll find that if it's set to "No," the unit will not attack until it has completed its manually assigned course.

This thread has me confused about when a unit will automatically engage a hostile contact. Suppose a ship is on a plotted course (no mission, so Engage opportunity targets shouldn't be a factor), and it has detected a hostile ship, aircraft, and submarine that are all within its weapons ranges. Assuming all OODA lags have timed out and there are no WCS/WRA settings interfering with shooting, are you saying that the intended game behavior is that the ship will hold fire on all three targets unless Ignore plotted course when attacking is set to "yes" or the ship reaches the end of its plotted course?

[thewood1]

Created a baseline ASuW scenario just to clarify some wrong information here. You do not need to have "ignore plotted course" set to yes. Note the DDG immediately fires tomahawks at the ships as they are detected right away. This is basically the same DDG as in my big scenario with ROE set to no on plotted course option.

Also, I tried both in 1428.18 and no difference. That says to me that, as stated, something is broken in some older scenarios. I am going re-add the SAG and see if that fixes it. This has the potential to create a lot of work.

edit: I think this is going to be even more work than I thought. There is a potential to mess all the ref pts to that SAG that are used for air cover, AEW, etc. It will also mess up all Iranian missions built out to attack that SAG. I might be able to workaround that by adding and deleting one ship at a time. We'll see.

[thewood1]

So went through the effort of replacing all SAG units. Ran it from that refresh. Same issue. Its not the blue units causing the issue. Note the pic.

1) As soon as the red unit with the red circle is detected (seconds after start), the SAG launches a Tomahawk.
2) The weapon allocations dialog shows the manual allocation for the missile boat at the top circled in orange.
3) The allocation is green on the Tomahawk, yet the SAG just won't fire.
4) If I allocate the missile, it will fire like nothing is wrong.

My conclusion is there is something about those patrol boats the Tomahawk does not like. I would really like someone to tell me how to make this work.

[blu3s]

This thread has me confused about when a unit will automatically engage a hostile contact. Suppose a ship is on a plotted course (no mission, so Engage opportunity targets shouldn't be a factor), and it has detected a hostile ship, aircraft, and submarine that are all within its weapons ranges. Assuming all OODA lags have timed out and there are no WCS/WRA settings interfering with shooting, are you saying that the intended game behavior is that the ship will hold fire on all three targets unless Ignore plotted course when attacking is set to "yes" or the ship reaches the end of its plotted course?

Regarding ignore plotted course, my bad, it's only when the unit is NOT in range within the target. I was confused regarding the bug that seems related to the targeting process and OODA loop. We're working on a fix on this one

[blu3s]

Regarding auto-engagements

Aircrafts and missiles are treated different than ships, subs and land targets.

For an unit with no mission, to engage auto all ships, subs or land targets in range will need the Engage Opportunity Targets -> Yes

https://youtu.be/9NQqhsnfd94

[blu3s]

Regarding your scenario, thewood1

Loading the save you provide without touching anything, after a few minutes in game time, the SAG engages all surface targets in range.

https://youtu.be/6GMsK27cXDk

As said, this delay seems to be related with the OODA loop and we're working in a fix for it

[thewood1]

Yes. And my point has been look how close they got. Thanks.

[thewood1]

This seems fixed in 1483.

[blu3s]

Yes, the issue is fixed and also the auto-targeting process should be smoother now.