[1483] About ABM detection/intercept

[erick33]

Experiments with Patriot and KM-SAM blk2 showed that neither radar could detect rising ballistic missiles. In particular, the AN/TPY-2 radar was used to detect only falling missiles.

KM-SAM blk2 didn't detect any missiles at all. Earlier versions enabled rising missile detection and KM-SAM blk2 ballistic missile interception, and I was wondering if this change was intended.

Also, frag warhead interceptors can't shoot down ballistic missiles or only shoot a large amount (about six) and only increase CEP.

As is well known, even a Frag warhead missile can sufficiently shoot down an IRBM, as shown in the PAC-2 of the Gulf War and the recent SM-6 case in the Red Sea.

However, in the current system, Frag warheads cannot shoot down ballistic missiles, so the scenario results often appear different from reality.

I don't know if it was intended for Frag warhead missiles to fail to shoot down ballistic missiles, but please check it out.

I accidentally erase the post and update it again.

[Nikel]

I tried the KM-SAM file (yesterday file), transformed it to v505 and used 1328.18 build, but got the same result.

The launching is not detected, it was detected descending on target by the AN/TPY-2 radar, the patriot did not fire and the ballistic missile impacted on the city marker.

In which version did it work differently?

[erick33]

I tried the KM-SAM file (yesterday file), transformed it to v505 and used 1328.18 build, but got the same result.

The launching is not detected, it was detected descending on target by the AN/TPY-2 radar, the patriot did not fire and the ballistic missile impacted on the city marker.

In which version did it work differently?

It worked differently when I used the version before the 1328.18 build. Maybe the ABM detection mechanism was updated, causing the problem.

[blu3s]

The detection might be related to the changes in 1328.18 about radar roles and velocity:

From the patch notes:

Until now, radars with an air-search capability and those with space-search (ie. ASAT & ABM) capability were separated in their target detection capacity by altitude and target type; ie. air-search radars could detect aerodynamic targets within the atmosphere, whereas space-search radars could detect BMs and RVs outside the atmosphere. While broadly accurate, this abstraction left a lot of unrealistic cases: For example a fighter radar could detect an RV in its terminal phase, or endoatmospheric guided weapons such as hypersonic missiles where not detected by BMD radars.

In real life, radars use velocity filters (in addition to altitude ceilings) to specialize in their search task and minimize false contacts etc. Command now correctly replicates this behaviour, with some assumptions for the minimum and maximum velocity values:

Air-only search radars may detect any target from 0 knots (hover) up to Mach 5.

Space-only search radars (ie. BMD/ASAT) can detect any target from Mach 2 up to "unlimited" velocity.

Combined air & space-search capable radars use the full velocity spectrum.

[blu3s]

Checking the scenario now,

The detection I don't think it's related to the above, MPQ-65 has the ABM & Space Search flag so it's able to track regardless of target velocity.

Probably related to the range capabilities of the MPQ-65

[Nikel]

Just in case is useful.

Tested in 1328.17 and 1328.12 and the behavior is the same (KM-SAM scenario).

[erick33]

Checking the scenario now,

The detection I don't think it's related to the above, MPQ-65 has the ABM & Space Search flag so it's able to track regardless of target velocity.

Probably related to the range capabilities of the MPQ-65

oh I checked and thank you for letting me know If so, the KM-SAM blk2 radar can't detect ballistic missiles because there is no ABM detection flag This part should go to DB request?

Also, I'm curious about the Frag warhead part.

[blu3s]

oh I checked and thank you for letting me know If so, the KM-SAM blk2 radar can't detect ballistic missiles because there is no ABM detection flag This part should go to DB request?

yes please, create a ticket in the DB github with the sources for the change


About the warhead frag, I know that for some cases it was temporarily disabled because there were some unwanted behaviors but there's no ETA when those will fixed. About the frag warheads affecting the CEP of the missile is WAD but if you have any ideas to improve the model, do not hesitate to share them with us.