Can Free France be created in this conditions or is it a bug?

[Joseignacio]

The conditions for rolling for Vichy areas were affected by a +2 because of BBs out of Metropolitan Vichy.

After the rolls, it came out there was no FF.

Later on, the CW liberates French Somaliland and the game "says" FF is created. All those hexes were marked FF.

The CW player cannot land units there even though they should cooperate.

The table of Relations keeps counting French Somaliland as Conquered if I understand it well, and there is no country FF created as such.

The rules say that when FF is conquered, cannot be liberated until VIchy collapses, but here I am not sure if "not created" can be considered "conquered".


So, if there can exists a FF, then IMO CW should be able to step in without meeting FTC, considering CW "liberated " it, and they cannot.

If there cannot be a FF, the hexes in the map are wrongly marked FF.

This image is for later on. The Para should have been able to get inside F Somaliland while embarked, which is what the CW player wanted to do, or be able to disembark, which was not allowed by the game earlier, so it landed on B Somaliland instead.I am including it so that the hex marking can be seen.

Captura de pantalla 2024-11-03 004326.png (529.9 KiB) Viewed 575 times

[paulderynck]

The exceptions in the MWIF Players Manual say the colony can be liberated to Free France, but is silent on whether Free France must already exist. The RAW7 FAQ says it has to exist.

If MWiF was doing it right, there should have been a question to the CW during the Liberation step asking if it will be liberated or not. The hex control could be the result of the pre-Vichy situation where France and the CW don't cooperate and since Free France was not created, the game continues the non-cooperation.

Either way, it is messed up. It would be interesting to see if any French units are added to its force pool at the start of the next year.

I can't recall if the game editing document contains anything about changing who cooperates with who.

[Joseignacio]

I will try to remember telling you.

It does exist a pool called FF but it is empty now (which could be correct IIRW), so who knows.

[Joseignacio]

Ok, I will report it as a bug.

In the meantime, till maybe there is a solution, what do people think, there should be a FF or not. Because if yes, I cannot do anything but if no, I could try to reflag these hexes as CW so the Allied player can use them. We would see if the game allows it...

[Centuur]

Free France can only be created the moment the Axis install a Vichy government.

So if Free France is not created at that moment, all minor countries and territories which were French are now Vichy France. If the Allies occupy those minors, they are conquered by the Allies (not liberated).

Free France (note "Free") will not exist during the whole game in this case. France will get back into the game, after the Allies liberate the country.

I don't know any way how to change this bug during the game itself. But your solution might be a possibility to work around this problem.

[paulderynck]

I took a look at the game file and changed the hex control to CW and the CW was able to RTB the Queens with the Para to Djibouti. But then I looked at relations (Ctrl-R) to see if France is listed and it is not. And it also shows Vichy France as neutral but Italy as the conqueror of French Somaliland, which is also shown as incompletely conquered relative to all Allied powers and France is not listed in any relationships. So I conclude France has not been rejuvenated in this game.

Thus I think just changing the hex control to the CW would work, but the file has to be shared with the other player since this is a Netplay game and you don't want to be out of sync.

[Joseignacio]

Thanks, Paulderynck

We were waiting to see if it was a bug and which bug it was.

Then I planned to change control, editing, although I wasnt very sure if the game would allow considering FF's weird condition as a country, but i am happy to know it is possible.

[Joseignacio]

Free France can only be created the moment the Axis install a Vichy government.

So if Free France is not created at that moment, all minor countries and territories which were French are now Vichy France. If the Allies occupy those minors, they are conquered by the Allies (not liberated).

Free France (note "Free") will not exist during the whole game in this case. France will get back into the game, after the Allies liberate the country.

I don't know any way how to change this bug during the game itself. But your solution might be a possibility to work around this problem.

Interesting.

[Joseignacio]

Free France can only be created the moment the Axis install a Vichy government.

So if Free France is not created at that moment, all minor countries and territories which were French are now Vichy France. If the Allies occupy those minors, they are conquered by the Allies (not liberated).

Free France (note "Free") will not exist during the whole game in this case. France will get back into the game, after the Allies liberate the country.

I don't know any way how to change this bug during the game itself. But your solution might be a possibility to work around this problem.

Unless

Vichy French collapse
If an Axis unit enters any hex in Metropolitan Vichy France before an Allied unit does, Vichy France collapses.

If Vichy France collapses, it ceases to exist as a major power. All of Metropolitan Vichy France is now conquered by the Axis major power that installed the Vichy government (see 13.7.1).

Each home country or territory aligned with Vichy France becomes conquered by any Axis major power that has a land unit in it. Other home countries and territories aligned with Vichy France align with Free France (or become Free France with a new home country if it is currently completely conquered).

[Centuur]

Free France can only be created the moment the Axis install a Vichy government.

So if Free France is not created at that moment, all minor countries and territories which were French are now Vichy France. If the Allies occupy those minors, they are conquered by the Allies (not liberated).

Free France (note "Free") will not exist during the whole game in this case. France will get back into the game, after the Allies liberate the country.

I don't know any way how to change this bug during the game itself. But your solution might be a possibility to work around this problem.

Unless

Vichy French collapse
If an Axis unit enters any hex in Metropolitan Vichy France before an Allied unit does, Vichy France collapses.

If Vichy France collapses, it ceases to exist as a major power. All of Metropolitan Vichy France is now conquered by the Axis major power that installed the Vichy government (see 13.7.1).

Each home country or territory aligned with Vichy France becomes conquered by any Axis major power that has a land unit in it. Other home countries and territories aligned with Vichy France align with Free France (or become Free France with a new home country if it is currently completely conquered).

True: but that effect is exactly the same if you compare it to the conquest of France by the Axis. I've never understood why the rule book doesn't state (or become France with a new home country if Free France is currently completely conquered)

[paulderynck]

Of course in CE you now can create Free France (or recreate France if there's no Vichy) by liberating a minor country that was aligned to France in 1939. So although Harry clarified the rule for RAW7, he changed it for the Collector's Edition.