Guards eligibile units? seperate tank regiments?

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chaos45
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Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 10:00 am

Guards eligibile units? seperate tank regiments?

Post by chaos45 »

Okay so the rule book doesnt have a list of what soviet units are guard eligible and in a game this detailed and time consuming its pretty ridiculous.

So you go through the work of finally getting enough wins for guards and units dont convert---getting wins against good German players in 1941 is fairly tough esp with the blizzard run away strat.

So can we please get an actual list of what soviets units are guard eligible and when or patch it to where everyone can get guards if they get wins.

This game is hard enough without unknown hard coded issues being found out as you play for months on end to just get several months into one game.
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Joel Billings
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Re: Guards eligibile units? seperate tank regiments?

Post by Joel Billings »

I can’t give you a simple list, because the code isn’t written in a simple way. But I’ll do my best to give you the info I understand re what units are converted to guards. In the editor, any unit can be made a Guards unit (or renamed mid-game into a Guards unit), via initial unit data. As for newly built/created units, or existing units converting due to wins, most of it is unit name based, and here’s what I know:

1. All units with Rocket or Heavy Tank in the name are automatically Guards.
2. Units with Militia/PM Rifle/Rum/NKVD/Partisan in their name will never convert to Guards.
3. Battalions never convert to Guards.
4. A unit must have a number in its name to convert to Guards
5. Default is HQs don’t convert (however non-Shock Army HQs can convert to Guards)
6. Tank Divisions and Mechanized Divisions don’t convert to Guards.
7. Any unit with Rifle Division, Rifle Corps, Cavalry Division, Cavalry Corps, Mechanized Corps, Tank Corps in the name, must have an appropriate Guards OB in the OB list to convert to Guards. The OB must be date available. (Mountain Rifle Divisions don't have a Guards OB, and since they have Rifle Division in the name, they don't qualify.)

There's always the chance I've missed something. I hope this info helps.
All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard
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M60A3TTS
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Re: Guards eligibile units? seperate tank regiments?

Post by M60A3TTS »

Image

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Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but FWIW I see neither of these guards units in the editor OOB.
Stamb
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Re: Guards eligibile units? seperate tank regiments?

Post by Stamb »

maybe you started with a patch when mountain guards still existed?
Слава Україні!
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M60A3TTS
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Re: Guards eligibile units? seperate tank regiments?

Post by M60A3TTS »

Stamb wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 12:25 pm maybe you started with a patch when mountain guards still existed?
Could very well be. In my current jubjub game, I can't build those 76.2mm ATGs because it started when they were bugged. Any number of these rules apply, don't apply, change, morph, etc with these many patches and changes.
Denniss
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Re: Guards eligibile units? seperate tank regiments?

Post by Denniss »

Joel Billings wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:22 am 2. Units with Militia/PM Rifle/Rum/NKVD/Partisan in their name will never convert to Guards.
It seems Yug. and Bul. are missing or is guards conversion disabled in small scenarios?
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Joel Billings
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Re: Guards eligibile units? seperate tank regiments?

Post by Joel Billings »

Notice that the mountain unit you show doesn't have "Rifle Division" in the name, so I assume that's why it was able to become guards. Things did change with the major OB changes with 1.03.xx. Before 1.03.xx, it looks like Mountain Divisions didn't have "Rifle" as part of their names. When it was clear that the Mountain Rifle Divisions were not gaining guards status, we elected to keep it that way since we only found 1 historical Guards Mountain unit in the war (not even sure it was a division), and we decide it could better be handled via renaming in the data.

Many units don't have to have a Guards OB to become guards. Only the units mentioned in number 7 have to have a guards OB to become guards. So the separate tank regiment, and a mountain unit that doesn't have rifle division in the name, could theoretically become guards. They are given the Guards designation, but their OB remains the same.

One of the difficulties updating this game is as you said, data changes don't impact existing games, while code changes do. So many items that are being fixed via data won't help you until you start a new game. Sometimes code and data fixes that are great going forward in new games, will have odd impacts on older games. We try to minimize the impact of these, but sometimes we don't realize the impact until after we get feedback from players.

I don't think that guards conversion is disabled in small scenarios, but that's a good question. It's possible that Bul and Yug are also excluded and I missed writing it down when Pavel talked me through the list, or it's possible they can become guards if they meet other criteria (since Partisan in the name is excluded, that rules out most Yug. units in Drama on the Danube).
All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard
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