Will the pattern continue?

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko
Don't tell me this is bad idea. I am sure Pasternakski will support it.

Oleg

I support all your ideas, Oleg. Keep 'em coming, we need all the humor we can get out here.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, I'd like a game about the Roman Empire done 1 day at a time [X(]
Parthia, Gaul. Britian, Carthage, Goths, Huns, (you get the pitcture)
(657,000 turns)

Played on a map of the world that's life size, of course.

How would you win? Starve 'em out? (As Alcibiades said during the famous siege of Lesbos, "They've been without supplies for so long in there, they're probably eating each other by now.")

[mogami]

Hi, That's one of the funniest comments I've read here in a long time. It would have really been hilarious had Alcibiades ever been involved in a siege of Lesbos.

[jnier]

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

I'd vote for a serious look at the US War of Independance. I don't recall any in depth treatment of the subject in a computer game.

I'd second that vote. We already have a pretty darn good strategic level ACW game out there (Frant Hunter's game) and there are plans to update it. But there hasn't been anything done on the Revolutionary War since that old SSI game.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, That's one of the funniest comments I've read here in a long time. It would have really been hilarious had Alcibiades ever been involved in a siege of Lesbos.

Hey - I never hesitate to f#ck with history when trying to come up with a cheap joke.

I just picked on Alcibiades because he's my favorite multiple traitor of all time. Compared to him, Benedict Arnold was a stand-up patriot.

[mogami]

Hi, Alcibiades is one of my favorite historic persons. I think he would be an excellent subject for a mini series. I consider him a great genius undone by his inabilty to ever leave well enough alone. (well that and the wives of Kings and persons who could have his head lopped off)
He has to be one of histories most interesting people and anyone who is unfamilair with him is missing out on a great story.

I don't at all agree with his being a traitor. He was falsely accused to begin with and after that it was messing with the wrong females that caused him to relocate. He never lied to anyone who employed him.

He was trained by Pericles, became the most Spartan man in Sparta, served the Persians and told Athens exactly what they needed to do (they ignored his advice)

[mogami]

Hi, The Civil War is boring but a war where the combined combat casualties are less then 1 civil war battle is interesting?
The War for Independance is interesting make no mistake but it's not the fighting thats interesting. (It's what you need to do to keep an army in the field) The Civil War has the same elements multiplied by 100. Anything interesting about the Revolution is found in the Civil War and that war is much more balanced. Important things about the Revolution cannot be duplicated in a game because so much was a result of having so many special persons at one place in a short period of history.
The Civil War was about personality as well to be sure but it was less then a dozen people who dominate it's course. (I think the American Civil War is one of the last conflicts where the personality of a few persons dominate the course of the war. I know I am going to hear Hitler and Stalin but they were more "types" of personality. But I'm only saying one of the last. I don't think the Gulf Wars have personality. (they may cause it but they don't fight it)


(Oh, have I mentioned the American Civil War is my favorite period in history?)

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, Alcibiades is one of my favorite historic persons. I think he would be an excellent subject for a mini series. I consider him a great genius undone by his inabilty to ever leave well enough alone. (well that and the wives of Kings and persons who could have his head lopped off)
He has to be one of histories most interesting people and anyone who is unfamilair with him is missing out on a great story.

I don't at all agree with his being a traitor. He was falsely accused to begin with and after that it was messing with the wrong females that caused him to relocate. He never lied to anyone who employed him.

He was trained by Pericles, became the most Spartan man in Sparta, served the Persians and told Athens exactly what they needed to do (they ignored his advice)

Okay, I agree on the "traitor" thing. Let's say that he was a "shameless opportunist."

Still, he was available for hire, and probably the thing that Hellas can hold against him the most is his offer to serve Persia against the Greeks.

As far as competence is concerned, the Syracuse campaign stands as evidence of something less than excellence. I have seen it argued that Alcibiades was more responsible for Athens losing the Peloponnesian War than anyone or anything else.

I, too, would like to see his story dramatized, but how many people in our day and age would understand any of it? I would hate to see a great, groping, dusty mess like has been made so many times of Odysseus or Jason, where half the movie consists of some narrator in the background explaining where the whole thing came from and what's going on.

[mbatch729]

ORIGINAL: Mogami
(Oh, have I mentioned the American Civil War is my favorite period in history?)

Please, either the War Between the States, or the War for Southern Independence, but not the Civil War. The Southern states were simply trying to exercise their right of succession (read the Federalist Papers) when Lincoln, who should have been impeached, exercised the power of the federal government over those states. Asbestos suit on, let the flames begin.

[mogami]

As far as competence is concerned, the Syracuse campaign stands as evidence of something less than excellence. I have seen it argued that Alcibiades was more responsible for Athens losing the Peloponnesian War than anyone or anything else.

Hi, Alcibiades planned the campaign but did not lead it. Remember he was recalled to Athens for defacing Hermes statues and rather then return to face those trumped up charges went to Sparta. The Athenians in Sicily were then commanded by poor Lamachus and Nicias both who had opposed the plan. Lamachus was killed before Demosthenes arrived with reinforcements and advised returning to Athens. Nicias would not retreat or attack and both Demosthenes and Nicias were executed after they finally were forced to surrender. Alcibiades would likely have won the campaign as it required 2 years for the Athenians to fool around and lose.
(After Syracuse called on help from Sparta they sent 1 man. He trained them to fight like Spartans.)

It would make a great movie. Prehaps I'll write the novel (and then the screen play)

[mogami]

Hi, The winners get to pick the name a conflict goes into the history books by. In Ohio we like to call it "The time we went down there and kicked those crackers in the behinds till they cried like the babies they are." Of course when I drive through Virgina I call it the "Great War of the Rebellion"

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, Alcibiades planned the campaign but did not lead it. Remember he was recalled to Athens for defacing Hermes statues and rather then return to face those trumped up charges went to Sparta. The Athenians in Sicily were then commanded by poor Lamachus and Nicias both who had opposed the plan. Lamachus was killed before Demosthenes arrived with reinforcements and advised returning to Athens. Nicias would not retreat or attack and both Demosthenes and Nicias were executed after they finally were forced to surrender. Alcibiades would likely have won the campaign as it required 2 years for the Athenians to fool around and lose.
(After Syracuse called on help from Sparta they sent 1 man. He trained them to fight like Spartans.)

It would make a great movie. Prehaps I'll write the novel (and then the screen play)

Your facts are correct and verify my statement about "lack of competence."

You get 'er done, and I'll go see 'er.

[mogami]

Hi, I have seen many times the quote "Golden Age of Greece" or "Golden Age of Athens" where the user did not seem to realize this period lasted less then a single generation. It was a result of Athens rise that led Sparta to finally risk war. The Spartans had long been known as soldiers but rare were the times she actually went to war. (Busy keeping the Helots in line)
(Sparta was eventually overcome when her enemies realized the key was freeing the Helots)
Athens could never have lost the war by normal means. It was the death of Pericles that I think resulted in Athens adopting the ultimatly fatal action. Still Alcibiades might have pulled off the Sicily operation had his opponents let him alone. Athens again had a chance to use him and he gave them the right advise but again they ignored it. Don't forget he returned to Athens and twice defeated superior Spartan naval forces reclaiming surpremacy for Athens and almost reversing the war but again his enemies had him recalled and he was forced to flee for the last time.
Finally Lysander paid to have him killed in Persia. A sad end for a brilliant man. His fate was often used later as proof Democracy does not work. Because had he been a king or dictator Athens would have won the war.

[wodin]

When was the Battle of Britain and bombing the reich released?

Also can they still be bought and what do the games entail?

[pasternakski]

Well, now we're going a little far afield, my friend. Yes, the rise of Athens was a primary stimulus for Sparta going to war, but the real causes were economic. The helot weakness notwithstanding, Sparta saw Athens as slowly weaving a web that would lead to hegemony (primarily through the Delian league). Trade and riches were the orb drawing the envious Spartan gaze. Acquiescence would have left Sparta a second-rate power, while such cities as Thebes, Corinth, and even Corcyra would have prospered, leaving Sparta and its land-bound military tradition to molder in the dustbin of history. Of course, the Potidaea incident set everyone's feet on the same path.

Yes, Pericles's time was the "Golden Age," but the Greeks needed not have expended their cultural energy on infighting. Had Athens prevailed, which was a distinct possibility during the early and middle part of the Peloponnesian war (for example, during the time of Cleon, who, had he been willing to accept Sparta's surrender terms at the siege of Pylos, could have cemented Athens's ascendancy for a long time to come).

Well, anyway. As George Thibault has said about Alcibiades, "A persuasive orator and gifted leader, Alcibiades was also an opportunist, and perhaps the most destructive character in this whole story. During the [Peloponnesian] war, he shifted sides no less than four times - always looking out for Alcibiades first, on the run to escape charges of treason and certain exile or death. Of him, Aristophanes said the people of Athens 'love, hate, and cannot do without him.'"