Why wont they move?

[Phenix]

Hi,
I played the second tutorial yesterday and when i order a unit to move somwhere to defend (could be HQ or a coy or anything) it just sits there. Ok i check force delay and unit delay, Gavin takes 39 min. to execute his orders, still 2hrs and 30 min later he just sits there?
Why? Almost every time i issue a unit to defend at somwhere else they arent moving.
I have to delete their orders and change their orders to move and then when they reach the spot i want them i have to issue defend orders. Time consuming and very micromanaging.
I have to miss something here cause "Markshot" says in his tips that almost all the time when he want a force to move to another place he just issue Defend at that place and they move there. What am i doing wrong?
Also can i use attack and defend as way points, say i wanna move down a road and i issue first a defend waypoint 50metres away and then another defend 100 metres away before reaching the destination with mmy last defend waypoint another 100 metres away.
Thanks in advance!

[general billy]

If you not happy with the order delay I suggest you reduce it until you get the hang of it. when I first started HTTR i started with no-delay and gradually increased it, so you get used to the increase of delay slowly. Some units do take long to move ie some german troops like the naval regiment or some of the luffwaffer take a very long time to move. They have to reorginize and they tend to do things slow. Also when you give an order its best for you to wait it out because everytime you reissue orders there are delays. Meaning that the unit isnt going nowhere because they are trying to understand the new reissued orders. Regarding the move and defend. You can give the order of defend to a particular unit and they will find a suitable route to get there. However its best to specify which route you want the unit to go and then issue the defend task. This insures that the unit is not going to follow any other route that you didnt want it to go through, i.e go through enemy lines.

[EricGuitarJames]

I'd concur with the General here. Even though I'd played HTTR's predecessor to death, I still went back to 'no delay' when I first acquired it. I played through the tutorial from the manual 'by the book' and got resoundly thrashed if that's any consolation.

The 'orders delay' for some units can be a bit misleading, I've noticed that I can issue similar orders to units with ostensibly the same delay yet one can execute considerably more quickly than another. Best leave these kinds of frustrations until you're more familiar with the rest of the game mechanics. Good luck and have fun!

[Phenix]

´Thanks for your replies!
I dont think that is the problem here though.
You see if i order a "move" order they usually start to move relatively shortly after.
But if order a "defend" or "ATTACK" they just sit there, until i delete their Def or ATT order and issue a move order, then they fairly shortly afterwards.

So what can i be doing wrong here, they are not reorging so that is not the problem.
Can it be that these units have an order already issued to them. EX. 82HQ and base have and defend order issued to them when i issue a new defend order 1km away. They dont move at all, after several hours i delete their defend order and order them to move with a waypoint and then a defen at the location i want them to defend.

However they only listen to the move order and stop where that waypoint stop, never fulfilling the defend order.

According to both the manual and "markshot" it should be enough to either issue one long defend order over several km if necessary and they will move their or set up waypoints per Km with defend and they should move. Hm not my units?[:(]

I agree with you that maybe i have to learn without orderdelays but i want to learn how the game should be played from the beginning, so anymore ideas?

/Regards

[MarkShot]

Well, you should check their fatigue and cohesion levels as that will override anything they are told to do.

You should also make sure that formation for the order is not set to "in-situ". Sometimes, I have set "in-situ" for defend and then dragged a defend marker to a nearby location wondering why they won't move.

At times I have seen units move out before other units have received their orders and at other times I have seen no one move out until everyone has the new orders. The former seems to take place more often for dispersed forces and the latter for massed forces. So, you may be seeing the HQ waiting until everyone has their new orders. Also, remember that HQ units tend to trail along more towards the end of the traveling force, since it moves in bounds. Thus, HQ can sit for quite a while.

Now, another possibility is that you have come across a bug. Although if it happens all the time in everything you try, I would think it isn't, since we have tested extensively and tend not to miss the blatantly obvious. However, if you have a specific unique case, it could be a bug. Then, you should gather as much information about the circumstance as possible and make sure you have a save game which illustrates the problem. From that, Panther can check into it. Now, if the problem is widely happening in everything you do, it could still be a bug if you have found a way to interact with the game that no one ever does. But, of course, it is relatively unlikely.

[MarkShot]

Regarding units moving to a location and defending there.

Be aware that the default state of units is to defend. Thus, whenever an order is completed a unit or a force will establish a defensive posture. Once that happens, individual units will go through the transitions: moving -> deployed -> dug-in -> entrenched.

Thus, for single units, there is virtually no difference between giving a move or defend order. For a force, the differences lies in the fact that the parameters apply to their traveling for move whereas the parameters apply to their destination for defend. (not completely, but more than less) So, for example if you want defensive line for a force, then use defend. If you did that formation with move, then they will actually travel in a line formation; not the best way to use a highway to get some place.

[EricGuitarJames]

Phenix, one thing you can try if your units are not following orders is this. Click the unit you issued the order to, this should show a line (either straight or a route) culminating in the order icon. Click the icon twice. This should show some statistics including the nature of the task, the sort of route and formation chosen (if you've not specified then this will be the default), the time the order was given and the time it will be executed. Admittedly if you've issued a 'defend' order the execution time will be the scenarios end but for an attack this will be when the unit expects to be carrying out the order.

[Phenix]

Thanks Eric and Markshot, They where defending "in-situ" when they received their orders so i guess thats why they didnt move. Silly question maybe why dont they move when they are "in-situ"?
Do i have to change formation and they order a new defend order at the new location and everything will be cool?
I notice i didnt get this problem in the beginning of the new scenario im playing, everybode moved just fine after alittle delay.
So your tip is watch out for "in-situ"?[:)]

[Arjuna]

Phenix,

"In-Situ" is short for in situation and means "stay put where you are". [:)]

[Phenix]

aha...[:D] that explains a thing or 2...
So you should never put a unit in defend formation "in-situ" if you want them to move later?

[Arjuna]

Units that are "in-situ" and forced to retreat will do so but then when they recover, they will stay put where they have retreated to. If you really must have them retake their original position, then don't use "in-situ" formation type.

[EricGuitarJames]

ORIGINAL: Phenix

aha...[:D] that explains a thing or 2...
So you should never put a unit in defend formation "in-situ" if you want them to move later?

Setting units 'in-situ' is fine. When you issue fresh orders this has no effect. When you issue fresh orders they should follow them as quickly as the 'orders delay' allows them to. Since you're fairly new to the game, I would recommend leaving the AI to sort out the unit formation and route (although you could still set waypoints[:)]). Personally, I don't like setting formation to 'in-situ' unless the situation absolutely demands it, since if I issue a 'defend' order I want that unit to defend a specific position - if they're forced to retreat then I usually prefer them to attempt to retake it.

Basically, my advice would be for you to allow the AI to handle as much of the tactical side as you feel you can. The orders menu can be a bit daunting at first so leave formations, routes, facing, frontage and depth etc. to the computer - all things considered it does a reasonably good job[;)]. When you get more comfortable then you can 'play around' a bit - turn the orders delay off, use savegames and watch how 'tweaking' the orders affects a units behaviour.

[Arjuna]

ORIGINAL: EricGuitarJames

When you get more comfortable then you can 'play around' a bit - turn the orders delay off, use savegames and watch how 'tweaking' the orders affects a units behaviour.

I recommend this. It's a good way of observing the different effects of each parameter. Remember to try the different formation types in both open and covered terrain. You will then get a feel for the different area a force occuppies and the shape it takes on the ground.

Have fun,

[Golf33]

ORIGINAL: EricGuitarJames

Setting units 'in-situ' is fine. When you issue fresh orders this has no effect. When you issue fresh orders they should follow them as quickly as the 'orders delay' allows them to.

Note that this only applies when you issue a brand-new order. If you select the existing In-Situ Defend order, and drag it to a new location, this will have no effect since the unit is still being told to "defend where you are now".

In general I recommend issuing completely fresh orders rather than dragging existing orders to a new location. There is no difference in processing speed and you avoid a couple of pitfalls, like the one above.

Regards
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[MarkShot]

Steve,

Being that you are saying this "no benefit to dragging", I'll assume you know that for a fact. I had always assumed the contrary, since I thought we had once discussed that small modifications to existing orders should have a minimal impact. Furthermore, I thought the underlying algorithms were changed to reflect that.

Can you double check with Dave? Then, I can avoid wearing out my mouse pointer by dragging it around.

Thanks.

[Golf33]

I've spoken to Dave and as far as we can recall, moving the location of an order causes the same delay as issuing a brand-new order. Changing the orientation and formation in most cases doesn't incur any orders delay provided you don't move the location of the order. IIRC in Attack tasks changing the formation does (at least in some cases) cause a replan and delay however.

Regards
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