German T1 and the VVS --- attacking ports

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Sertorius21
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Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2024 3:40 pm

German T1 and the VVS --- attacking ports

Post by Sertorius21 »

Thanks for the great material in various posts here, it has helped with quite a few of my questions. I may have missed some further explanations so apologies if the following are redundant:

- what is the purpose of GA the Russian VVS in T1? There are no Il 2s to kill and so all that is achieved is reducing the number of Mig 3s, the rest being largely irrelevant. Or am I wrong here and some of the Soviet aircraft will cause issues? Is the purpose to clear the area near the front for T1 or really to deal a blow to the VVS? I would assume that the number of quality pilots is more an issue for the VVS than the machines themselves but again may be prejudiced.

- for later on: it seems that if units are in a port and need to retreat, they go into Rout and end up a few hexes away, having lost about the same as if retreating a few miles on hard ground. So they seem to take rather leisurely all their equipment with them. Will a hefty dose of NP around the port bring significant losses? What is counter NP and how does it help a defending force?

- There is a mention about GA on ports being rather ineffective, is this a general reflection or only for ports with a capacity above xyz?
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Wiedrock
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Re: German T1 and the VVS --- attacking ports

Post by Wiedrock »

Sertorius21 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:17 am I would assume that the number of quality pilots is more an issue for the VVS than the machines themselves but again may be prejudiced.
VVS reduced their AG sizes from 60+ to 32 to 20 two times in 2/3 months. Their production can not keep up with the losses if you take out planes "as historic" on T1 and after that (and the enemy used them - so you can shoot them down).
Sertorius21 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:17 am There are no Il 2s to kill and so all that is achieved is reducing the number of Mig 3s, the rest being largely irrelevant. Or am I wrong here and some of the Soviet aircraft will cause issues?
Not sure why you mention Il-2s specifically, their bombs kill as all other bombs, for sure there are differences in performance/efficiency, but other plabes are fine as well. All you need is them to get through during their mission.
Especially during the first turns, Soviet infantry despite being thousands of men and defending, can barely kill a single German in Combat. But what can kill Germans is defensive GS and to do this you only need some 20-50'ish bombers of any type and 70'ish trash Fighters to shield the bombers/keep german fighters busy per GS mission.
Doubt that is remotely close the situation in 1941, VVS killing more Germans than Ground forces, but the Devs decided to make the Red Army (when below certain MOR/EXP/TOE tresholds) to be completely pillow-throwers, so you better throw some bombs at attackers.... it is what it is. I'll attach some examples, the last one has some rested Soviets entrenched, even then VVS kills about 20% as many Germans as the Ground Forces did in this example.
How to Read the Details:
See the section with DESTROYED and compare the "Men" Collumn for the lines "Ground" and "Air". There you see how many Men have been killed by those two factors.
Sertorius21 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:17 am - for later on: it seems that if units are in a port and need to retreat, they go into Rout and end up a few hexes away, having lost about the same as if retreating a few miles on hard ground. So they seem to take rather leisurely all their equipment with them. Will a hefty dose of NP around the port bring significant losses? What is counter NP and how does it help a defending force?
The idea of NP is tho ISOLATE the Port. You need Naval interdiction levels of +2 for that (friendly Sea Hexes will be shown "bright" enemy sea Hexes will be red).
Sertorius21 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:17 am - There is a mention about GA on ports being rather ineffective, is this a general reflection or only for ports with a capacity above xyz?
The effects of Bombing any Building/Factory are both limited in their effects and hard to achieve. I guess in some respect it is historical that way but on the other side you had Bombings destroying whole Railyards with Ammo by 8 Bombers which can't be achieved in game at all.
Attachments
Defensive GS examples.png
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Defensive GS examples2.png
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Defensive GS examples_rested SOV.png
Defensive GS examples_rested SOV.png (560.16 KiB) Viewed 538 times
Sertorius21
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2024 3:40 pm

Re: German T1 and the VVS --- attacking ports

Post by Sertorius21 »

The examples you provide are strikingly clear, I will certainly not forego the opportunity of taking the VVS down a level then... So it is again a principle of quantity being a quality in itself...
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Wiedrock
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Re: German T1 and the VVS --- attacking ports

Post by Wiedrock »

Sertorius21 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:35 pm So it is again a principle of quantity being a quality in itself...
definitely. :D
DeletedUser1769703214
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Re: German T1 and the VVS --- attacking ports

Post by DeletedUser1769703214 »

Kill the quantity, problem solved.
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