Why are races with very good relations becoming part of Shakturi alliance?

[rustyj]

Not sure if this is happening normal game, but at Extreme, Chaotic, factions with very good relations with me are becoming part of the Shakturi Alliance. It's happened in a few games. What's the point of taking the time and resources to foster good relations with potential allies, if the 'rules' are out the door? I know things are supposed to be chaotic, but a race with 120+ rep with my faction asking for territory mapping etc when it is part of the Shakturi alliance doesn't seem right. The race didn't have good relations with Shakturi and they were much larger than Shakturi, so it is hard to argue other means of coercion are likely.

I know what some will say, 'It's supposed to be chaotic', but this seems a rather weak response to me. There are plenty of measures which can be tweaked to make diplomacy more consistent, eg neg instances score, aggression, lower return on gifts etc, without reducing the game to a roll of the dice. Afterall it is supposed to be a game of tactics and strategy - playing one faction off against another, using your strengths against others' weaknesses.

I'm not griping because I lose, I don't. But it seems more like a game of chance rather than skill.

[fruitgnome]

Which races?

[thegreybetween]

The races in question matter. For example, insectoid races (Boskara, Gizurean, etc) are predisposed toward the Shakturi for thematic/lore reasons and will often side with them despite other factors. Also, those races are extremely susceptible to Shakturi psychic influence, which may cause them to act in ways that inexplicably seem to favor Shakturi interests. If the races in your situation are insect empires, that may be part of the issue (which is working as intended).

If it is some other empire, things like Shakturi psychic influence could still be playing a role (and there is no easy way to see it, as it is happening under the hood). Also, threat analysis for the Shakturi might be a factor - while the Shakturi are small, they don't look like a big threat, but they may be weighted more heavily in an empire's coercion decision tree given what the Shakturi will quickly become.

And, as you stated - Chaotic does, indeed, add some chaos to the diplomacy. I agree that a wild and sudden swing is a silly thing to handwave as just "well, that's chaotic", but the above factors may combine to help explain what might have happened.