Force Occupies/VP Event Editor Question

Post new mods and scenarios here
Post Reply
User avatar
RedAss
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:41 am

Force Occupies/VP Event Editor Question

Post by RedAss »

I swear I TRY not to bother you smart guys on the forum, but here I go again.

Working on a scenario about the US invasion of Panama in 1989. It's a short and sweet scenario, and the world needs more of those. (Kind of a fascinating little action as well, with interesting equipment [M551 Sheridan, A-37 Dragonfly, first use of F-117A &Humvee] massive airdrops, lots of SPEC OPS air assaults, etc. But I digress.)
It's short and sweet because the Panamanian forces were at a huge disadvantage, so that needs to be offset.

One of the hallmarks of this war was that the US had a number of objectives that needed to be taken, and taken quickly.

It is a foregone conclusion that the US player WILL take these objectives. Therefore, I don't just want to give these objectives a set VP value, because the US player will likely take them all eventually. what I want to do is give the Panamanian forces VP's for every turn they HOLD these objectives. The longer they hold out, the more VP's they get, which will give the US player the urgency to take them quickly that existed at the time, and may affect deployment options.

Trying to figure out to accomplish this in that damn Event Editor. In the Evil Ed document, it does list how something like this has been done:
Force Attacks
Can be used to force players to fight for certain places. For example, it is usually quite hard to keep
Soviet player in summer 1941 from running away from border as fast as he can. Even harder it is to force
him counterattack – since if large shocks implemented for Germans, it is clear that Soviets will have no
effect but speed up evaporation of their forces. But we can use the following line: if German troops
approach town A (inside some radius), soviet player have X VPs for each round that there're fightings
inside this radius (forcing Soviets to fight as long as possible). Furthermore, if German took this town,
Soviet player have to act inside a smaller radius but with increased bonuses (forcing him to
counterattack as long as possible). Add there that he'll have even greater bonus if he'll manage to take
the town. In some cases this could be enough to throw Soviets into historical counterattacks near the
borders (while common player will avoid it at all costs against German supremacy). But, please, note that
this feature is useful in the relatively short scenarios (several days or weeks), when the questions of
tactics prevails over the strategy and operational planning. (Pavel)
However, it does not list the scenario it was done in, nor exactly how it was accomplished.
I would obviously want to use Force Occupies instead of Force attacks, and there are about 21 locations I'd want to use this in.

Can't quite figure the event cascade to increase the VP's for Panama every turn for each location up until they lose the location.

If anyone has an idea of how Pavel did this, or knows the scenario Pavel designed so I could shamelessly copy his work, that would be great. Shameless is my wheelhouse.
User avatar
RedAss
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:41 am

Re: Force Occupies/VP Event Editor Question

Post by RedAss »

Here is what I have come up with. I think it will work, but like my sex life it is awkward, ungainly, and grotesquely complicated.

The color coding on the spreadsheet was intended to make this mess easier to follow. Each turn in the "Force Occupies" section (Events 1-15) is color coded by background, and text of certain Events are color coded to correspond with the "VP" section (Events 21-27).

If indeed this is the route, I would have to do this for 12 turns in 21 locations. This would give this scenario a slightly higher complexity rating than the invasion of Panama itself.

Totally willing to do this, but surely ONE of you is smarter than this:
Events Plan.png
Events Plan.png (98.29 KiB) Viewed 542 times
User avatar
sPzAbt653
Posts: 10053
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 7:11 am
Location: east coast, usa

Re: Force Occupies/VP Event Editor Question

Post by sPzAbt653 »

Look further down in that document for 'Perpetual Loops and Special Combinations', because it seems that what you want is a repeating event [loop] that awards VP to the Panama side for holding locations, and that loop is canceled when the US occupies those locations. I would first try:

Event #1, Turn 1, Panama VP +X
Event #2, Turn 1, Enable Event 1
Event #3, US occupies xx,xx
Event #4, by Event #3, cancel Event #2

I think that doing this for each of the twenty-one locations might work. You can test this by making one of these four event loops and then running the scenario to see if that works. If it does, you should be good to put together the other twenty.
User avatar
RedAss
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:41 am

Re: Force Occupies/VP Event Editor Question

Post by RedAss »

Going to give that a try. I looked at the loop thing, and my addled brain couldn't come up with one.
User avatar
rhinobones
Posts: 2161
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 10:00 am

Re: Force Occupies/VP Event Editor Question

Post by rhinobones »

Red

Were you able to get a loop working? If so, please share.

Regards, RhinoBones
Colin Wright:
Pre Combat Air Strikes # 64 . . . I need have no concern about keeping it civil

Post by broccolini » Sun Nov 06, 2022
. . . no-one needs apologize for douchebags acting like douchebags
User avatar
cathar1244
Posts: 1251
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:16 am

Re: Force Occupies/VP Event Editor Question

Post by cathar1244 »

rhinobones wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2025 1:07 am Red

Were you able to get a loop working? If so, please share.

Regards, RhinoBones
I saw this once as a loop for occupation of hexes, not sure if it is what you're looking for.
Because the Occupy events don't recycle, you would do this:

Ev 1, 1 Occupies
Ev 2, by (trigger=) Ev 1, enable Ev 3
Ev 3, 2 Occupies
Ev 4, by (trigger=) Ev 3, enable Ev 1
Cheers
User avatar
RedAss
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:41 am

Re: Force Occupies/VP Event Editor Question

Post by RedAss »

rhinobones wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2025 1:07 am Red

Were you able to get a loop working? If so, please share.

Regards, RhinoBones
So I've found some time to do the testing, and I think sPzAbt653's loop was exactly what the doctor ordered (and thanks so much!!!). Although there is this weird inconsistency... sometimes when Force 1 occupies, the Force 2 VP's stop instantly. Sometimes, there is a one turn lag, and I have witnessed a 2 turn lag once. It weird, as nothing else changed. The same loop, with the same actions resulted in slightly different outcomes. I have come to accept it as a fog of war kind of thing, but it is weird.
Ev 1, 1 Occupies
Ev 2, by (trigger=) Ev 1, enable Ev 3
Ev 3, 2 Occupies
Ev 4, by (trigger=) Ev 3, enable Ev 1
I looked at this. But I need Force 2 to start getting the points beginning turn 1, and you don't get credit for occupying a hex if you start the game with it.
I looked at this loop to have Force 2 re-start to earn points for a reoccupation, however:
1) Force 2 likely doesn't have the rocks in their pocket to mount a decent counter offensive, and
2) If they do manage it, they get the actual VP's for taking the objective, which will provide a big VP hit with very few turns to counter. This will require Force 1 to deal with it with their limited forces, which will hinder taking other objectives.

Thanks to all for responding. This board is top drawer for people jumping in to help out.
Funny story about Elmer:
I have a staunch and unblemished record of Elmer not doing what I want him to do. He does not respect my authority, and is full of his own ideas. I've tried more objectives, less objectives, different Form'n orders, copying from other scenarios... literally no luck. Nothing fancy, I'm talking basic "Ground formation, move to these objectives and take them. You know, like you do with astonishing regularity in Korea 50-53" stuff. Elmer shows profound disinterest in complying -- he has other interests he'd like to pursue.
Now, I had no intention of creating a Force 1 (US) PO. for this scenario (Panama, 1989). It would be the most complicated one I'd tried, as there are massive airdrops and helo assaults required, and, besides, it was designed as a Human US vs. Panama PO scenario. But I decided to just give all US forces objectives for kicks and giggles to see how bad it would be. Put very little thought into it. Couldn't WAIT to see the ridiculousness ensue.

THEY. EXECUTE. FLAWLESSLY. AND. AS. INTENDED. EVERY. DAMN. TIME.
User avatar
rhinobones
Posts: 2161
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 10:00 am

Re: Force Occupies/VP Event Editor Question

Post by rhinobones »

Interesting that VPs occasionally experienced a lag. Maybe it has something to do with housekeeping at the end of turns. It’s a problem I’ve never encountered.

Since VP counting only starts upon a change of ownership, here is a suggestion.
Off map, in an area not accessible to the US, give Panama a set VP value. All VP targets start the game owned by Panama and give the US VPs when occupied. US VPs will accumulate until the total exceeds the threshold for an Overwhelming victory, or the scenario ends at its designed end point and the win/loss is calculated. This way you don’t need to switch VPs on/off and the US player is compelled to move rapidly in order to get an Overwhelming victory.

You’ll need to experiment with VPs per target, VPs for Panama and length so that even an experienced player is challenged.

Regards
Colin Wright:
Pre Combat Air Strikes # 64 . . . I need have no concern about keeping it civil

Post by broccolini » Sun Nov 06, 2022
. . . no-one needs apologize for douchebags acting like douchebags
User avatar
RedAss
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:41 am

Re: Force Occupies/VP Event Editor Question

Post by RedAss »

rhinobones wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2025 11:10 pm Interesting that VPs occasionally experienced a lag. Maybe it has something to do with housekeeping at the end of turns. It’s a problem I’ve never encountered.

Since VP counting only starts upon a change of ownership, here is a suggestion.
Off map, in an area not accessible to the US, give Panama a set VP value. All VP targets start the game owned by Panama and give the US VPs when occupied. US VPs will accumulate until the total exceeds the threshold for an Overwhelming victory, or the scenario ends at its designed end point and the win/loss is calculated. This way you don’t need to switch VPs on/off and the US player is compelled to move rapidly in order to get an Overwhelming victory.

You’ll need to experiment with VPs per target, VPs for Panama and length so that even an experienced player is challenged.

Regards
That's a good idea. I wonder if it might work better to go the opposite route?

SUBTRACT US VP's for each turn the Panamanians hold on, rather than awarding Panamanian VP's. Have no actual objectives on the map worth any VP at all (except for the off-map US hex). Then it becomes a US attempt to struggle for VP threshold against the game itself, rather than a competition for VP's against Panama, if that makes sense. That might make it easier to dial in what all these amounts should be.

I also have a wild card with VP's with the Noriega piece. There is a counter for him, the destruction of which will represent his capture. Haven't dialed in how many VP's his capture is worth, but I DO want to arrange it so that if the US doesn't catch him, a draw is the MOST they can achieve (and I've worded that in the briefings as "Lack of US Victory") due to international embarrassment -- while we can argue about the actual reasons for the invasion all day, the ostensible reason was to bring Noriega to justice for his drug crimes, and there needs to be a hefty price for not doing so. So subtract x VP points from the US player on turn 1, and give them x VP back if they capture Noriega. That way the capture of Noriega is a net wash -- it doesn't really affect the threshold if he is captured, but wrecks the chances of meeting it if not.

Hmmmm.
Post Reply

Return to “Mods and Scenarios”