Climb rate and air battle in WITP AE

[Tcao]

I know climb rate combine the early warning will help the interception in WITP AE, by putting large number of standby fighters into the interception course. But does the climb rate directly impact the air battle itself in the game?

One thing that makes Zero formidable in first two years is its impressive initial climb rate, to allow it hit & run. And it was a shock to many Zero pilots that old trick doesn't work in front of F4U and F6F, as the new heavy American fighters also have excellent initial climb rate.

So , does the climb rate direct impact the air battle? Or the initial climb rate is included in the maneuver ratings?

[Yaab]

Uhm, I am surprisingly thin on refrences re dogfighting.
Speed vs maneuver
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 0#p3875160

AFAIK, initial Zero weapons are sort of meh - 7.7mm MGs and 20mm cannons with low accuracy.

[Yaab]

Getting into positions - speed vs MVR, and pilot exp

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 2#p4991112

[Chris21wen]

Climb rate mainly affects scrambling aircraft getting them to the intercept height faster. This in turn improves the combat time prior to the raid dropping it's load. I doubt it has has much affect during dogfighting itself.

[Sardaukar]

We'd need TheElf to chime in, as Air Team leader during programming, AFAIK.

[Seacat54]

I know climb rate combine the early warning will help the interception in WITP AE, by putting large number of standby fighters into the interception course. But does the climb rate directly impact the air battle itself in the game?

One thing that makes Zero formidable in first two years is its impressive initial climb rate, to allow it hit & run. And it was a shock to many Zero pilots that old trick doesn't work in front of F4U and F6F, as the new heavy American fighters also have excellent initial climb rate.

So , does the climb rate direct impact the air battle? Or the initial climb rate is included in the maneuver ratings?

I know you ment the 1 vs 1 battle but it does impact directly to the air battle between units and that is what counts most, not an individual plane or pilot but numbers and odds.
Or it might not matter much if you are sweeping or escorting with a plane designed more for that.

[PaxMondo]

The definitive statement by TheElf that Alfred references is here:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... c#p1742825

Note that in the TheElf's response he references a number of intermediate outcomes that players cannot see, but still happening "under the hood". Obviously, the devs had a debug mode that allowed them to see all of this detail.

After reading this, now read the discussion with obvert and lowpe again (2 of the best players ever). It tells you everything you need to know.

[Yaab]

Damn, PaxMondo digged deep for this gem. Many thanks!

Also notice how puny the damage was on the Warhawk.

[Chris21wen]

I forgot about the bounce.

[Sardaukar]

WOW!

That TheElf post should be sticky. It explains A2A calculations very well.

[PaxMondo]

WOW!

That TheElf post should be sticky. It explains A2A calculations very well.

Sardaukar,

Actually, I think it serves to show the level of detail of the calcs but it doesn't disclose all. TheElf leaves a fair amount unstated, like how the instant airspeed is arrived at for the encounter among many other things. But ignoring that, you can see how plane specs are involved and MOST importantly (IMO) is how pilot attributes contribute. Also inferred in his post is that good, experienced pilots will know how to best fight their aircraft. So, somewhere in the mix the code knows for each aircraft its best possible tactic in each situation. Now, whether that tactic is used is up to the pilot (likely with GG effect involved). And even if the correct tactic is used, the GG effect doesn't guarantee success. In TheElf's example, the zeke pilot hit with the 7mm and missed with his 20mm and then got nailed by the P40.

So, what I get out of his post is:
1. The encounter is setup. We don't know exactly how the code determines each AC status, but we do know that it does. It can be a single AC or multiple AC encounter. What I mean here is, it is either 1 v 1 or 1 v multiple. The multiple v multiple is broken down until it is one of the previous.
2. Each encounter is classified as a "type". Head on, oblique, tail, climbing, etc. For each of these encounter types, there is an optimal solution, and then several other less optimal for each AC in the encounter.
3. Pilot skill and exp will strongly influence which solution is taken.
4. The encounter is processed with GG effect involved.
5. Results tabulated and then onto the next encounter.

This would then be the basis for the tactics used by players such as lowpe and obvert (among others). The air combat model has these rules, they are followed, and even though the GG effect is well present, it doesn't preclude such tactics from working. Moreover, the model itself engenders players to develop these realistic tactics for success in the game.

The above is just my opinion. I have never seen the code and have no special knowledge from any dev.

[Yaab]

If a fighter has more durability and armor, it can stay in a dogfight longer, taking punishment, until some damage treshold is met, and the fighter returns to base.

However, it would seem that the fighter should lose some speed/mvr with each suffered damage. At least this is how I imagine that.

[PaxMondo]

If a fighter has more durability and armor, it can stay in a dogfight longer, taking punishment, until some damage treshold is met, and the fighter returns to base.

However, it would seem that the fighter should lose some speed/mvr with each suffered damage. At least this is how I imagine that.

I am going to defer to TheElf on all of that.