Washinton Accords

[CaptainPeche]

I am back with some more questions about both general gameplay and modding and some news about the scenario I've been working on. It is pretty ahistorical (I will think of the lore and how to justify all of these changes later ), but I tried to keep the changes more or less based on reality.

At first, I simply wanted to change some aspects of the WNT to include some of the biggest dreadnoughts, but as time went on, I decided to add more and more changes to the original scenario and I've accidentally changed the entire ship and LCU database.

This is definitely the largest change I've done:

French Indochina

Screenshot 2025-03-30 115325.png (3.05 MiB) Viewed 453 times

French forces in Indochina numbered 50.000 men (these figures vary greatly from source to source) and they heavily outnumbered the Japanese forces there, especially in 1941 and 1942, when most IJA forces were in Malaya or Burma and IJN was busy conquering DEI. I decided to ask myself a question: "What would have changed if these forces joined the fight?" To make it less OP for the allied player, Vichy forces would start with 75% of their forces disabled and would slowly recover their strength till mid 1942, with their supply starting to run out afterwards. Some Japanese forces would be added to contest the airfields in the south and the Franco-Chinese border, but I will try to design the scenario in such a way so a prolonged defense of Central and Northern Indochina by the French can be mounted before their death by starvation/arrival of allied reinforcements. There are also significant changes to French Navy (MNF Dunkerque and MNF Painleve with an aircraft complement of Skuas, F3Fs and CW-77s, together with their escorting forces, will be interned in Cape Town and will join you in may 1942, but this will delay the arrival of two R-class battleships) and some obscure French and Dutch aircraft are added Please note that this is not a copy of "War Options: 1941" mod as I have done most of the work myself. Only some base units, aircraft pictures and ship classes are copied with changes. Those will be removed if the original developer asks me to.

Significant changes are done to British and Indian forces. India Base Forces are expanded but made static. Separate brigades/regiments/battalions now can be merged into divisions (but no additional divisional support is available for them). These divisions include:
1) 1st Malay Division
2) 2nd Burma Division
3) 3rd Burma division
4) 18th Indian Division
5) 22nd Indian Division
6) 15th Armoured Division
7) 32nd Indian Armored Division
8) 36th Indian Division - changed to 66% Indian, 33% British from its original configuration of 33% Indian, 66% British
9) 43rd Indian Armored Division
10) 70th British Division
Please note that little to none changes are made to the strengths of the original units. In some cases, unit HQs are changed and the arrival of a single AT regiment is hastened by a month. Some British MG battalions are switched to simple infantry battalions and some mixed Indian divisions are converted to Indian-only divisions. All of this is optional and you can simply leave your forces separated. 101st and 102nd Marine Brigades are added instead of the Royal Marine division. Alexandria is added into the game.

Alexandria

Screenshot 2025-03-30 130937.png (2.11 MiB) Viewed 453 times

Chinese forces are altered slightly. Several Naval Base units are added to major Chinese-held ports and to Chungking: those are only supposed to be used as base units in case you manage to push back the Japanese forces in China. Yangtze river is now navigable all the way to Chungking (after all, the Chinese did evacuate a shipyard there), but please note that only small craft should be able to operate further inland (the game sadly doesn't give me this option). If you manage to hold Rangoon long enough, shipments of CTLS tanks will arrive for the Chinese armor corpses, together with some artillery and AA guns. Communist Chinese will get a chance to operate at most two tank brigades with some obsolete soviet tanks.

Dutch land forces are left unchanged, but the option to merge separate units into 1st, 2nd and 3rd KNIL divisions is now available. If DEI is held untill late 1942, these troops will get a significant TOE upgrade. ML-KNIL swaps some Buffalo fighters to equally terrible Dutch fighters. Some WH-139s are also replaced with dutch-built bombers (but you only get a small amount of those). Dutch Navy gets a significant boost with some new cruisers and destroyers. Three battlecruisers are also added, but they will only arrive in mid-1942 and 1943.

Soviet forces are changed to be more historical (after all, I have access to all sorts of primary forces), so their OOB is now a lot more precise. However, I was too lazy to time their arrivals properly, so expect to be hit by a red wave if you launch a soviet invasion prematurely, they will be coming for you with T-34-85s, IS-2s and ISU-152s. One Soviet battleship, one light cruiser and several destroyers join (or, rather don't leave) the Pacific fleet.

Australian and NZ units are unchanged, but some more base forces are added. 1st Australian Armored and 3rd NZ divisions can now be formed from separate units. I will probably add some Australian-designed planes if I feel like it. Canadian forces can now form the 6th Canadian Division and 4 random Home Guard brigades are removed.

US land forces remain mostly unchanged, with some of the PA troops changing their staring locations. PA TOEs are changed and PA squads are now produced till 1945. US 12th (Philippine) division is now an actual division and not a bunch of separate RCTs. 1st PA and 2nd PA Constabulary are now actual PA divisions rather than reserve ones like the rest. PAAF will get some more pilots and aircraft if you manage to hold Manila until April 42. The amount of USAF aircraft produced is increased significantly (I took the historical figures for P-40 production and multiplied those by 0.6 to show that most P-40s went to the Pacific e.t.c. I will try and do the same for Japan later). Bomb loads and ranges are also changed to better represent historical figures. B-18 demonstrator crashes during testing so USAF starts with more B-17Ds and less B-18s and most of the obsolete USAF aircraft (B-18s, P-26s, P-35s, P-36s and P-43s) are available in larger numbers (I don't know what exactly can you do with them, but yeah).

I will leave the USN and IJN changes for later as they are very significant, but the general trend is that the starting fleets are bigger and the battlelines are faster, with speeds of 25 knots and 30+ knots respectively. Some changes include USS Wasp being a modified Yorktown class carrier, Amagi-class BC Atago being renamed to Amagi and completed as a carrier, Soryuu and Hiryuu being bigger, Unryuu class being even bigger and Japanese shipbuilding expanded all the way till 1946. Playtime is also extended till 31.12.1946. USS Langley is still an AV but a conversion option first to a CVE and then to a CVL is available. USS Lindberg, a Langley-class CVE, is now also a thing, sailing for San Diego on December 7th. All Cimarron class oilers and C3 cargo ships are now convertible into CVEs and you can buy air groups for them using PP.

Here are some of the ship classes:

Ship Classes 1

Screenshot 2025-03-30 145440.png (454.62 KiB) Viewed 453 times

Ship Classes 2

Screenshot 2025-03-30 145919.png (1.53 MiB) Viewed 453 times

And now, the questions.

1) I've read the manual for the editor. It says that slots 5000-7999 are for Allied LCUs, but I ran out of space. Can I just... "invade" the space for Japanese LCUs or will it break something? I will obviously avoid editing the 'reserved' and the 'emergency reinforcements' slots, but what about the rest?
2) What exactly does the 'DT Ordinance' checkbox do? I expect the plane to either carry a centerline drop tank or a centerline bomb if that thing is checked, is that the case? Does max bomb load affect anything besides airfield requirements and transport load?*
3) Do centerline guns on aircraft act the same way as frontal guns?

*If I phrased the second question poorly, here is another attempt. Vildebeests can carry either a drop tank or a torpedo. How can I replicate that?

[btd64]

If you can find it, Look at the FOCUS PACIFIC scenario that I modded. although with my memory I can't remember the other guys name who was the original author. But you can use art or whatever you want....GP

[BBfanboy]

Captain Pêche:
2) What exactly does the 'DT Ordinance' checkbox do? I expect the plane to either carry a centerline drop tank or a centerline bomb if that thing is checked, is that the case? Does max bomb load affect anything besides airfield requirements and transport load?*
3) Do centerline guns on aircraft act the same way as frontal guns?

The checkbox, when checked, allows ordinance stations to be used to attach the drop tank. In the case of the Vildebeest, it would do what you want and replace the torp with a DT.

Centerline guns are more accurate than the wing mounted guns because the pilot can better sense when he has a lead on the target.

[stuman]

That sounds like a lot of work. Hats off to you for diving in. It sounds like an interesting scenario.

[RangerJoe]

Captain Pêche:
2) What exactly does the 'DT Ordinance' checkbox do? I expect the plane to either carry a centerline drop tank or a centerline bomb if that thing is checked, is that the case? Does max bomb load affect anything besides airfield requirements and transport load?*
3) Do centerline guns on aircraft act the same way as frontal guns?

The checkbox, when checked, allows ordinance stations to be used to attach the drop tank. In the case of the Vildebeest, it would do what you want and replace the torp with a DT.

Centerline guns are more accurate than the wing mounted guns because the pilot can better sense when he has a lead on the target.

Not just that for the Centerline guns but also they fire straight ahead while the wing mounted guns have to be adjusted to concentrate their fire at a set distance away, such as 300 yards or 900 feet. I believe that is referred to as converging fire as well as harmonisation.*

* Nice pictures here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_harmonisation

[RangerJoe]

As far as the P-40 production went, you would have to subtract all of those sent to training units as well as the Allies plus the Soviets if they received any of those. Not to mention those sunk on cargo ships as well.

For the p-43s, some of the surviving ones went to China after being disassembled and then reassembled in the CBI theatre.

[PaxMondo]

And now, the questions.

I suspect more will be forthcoming.

1) I've read the manual for the editor. It says that slots 5000-7999 are for Allied LCUs, but I ran out of space. Can I just... "invade" the space for Japanese LCUs or will it break something? I will obviously avoid editing the 'reserved' and the 'emergency reinforcements' slots, but what about the rest?

You can and you can also re-purpose the comment lines as well. There is a rumor that if you use IJ lines for Allied units that the IJ player will be able to see those on the map. I have never validated that as my mod is AI only so it is immaterial.

2) What exactly does the 'DT Ordinance' checkbox do? I expect the plane to either carry a centerline drop tank or a centerline bomb if that thing is checked, is that the case? Does max bomb load affect anything besides airfield requirements and transport load?*

No, you have to account for the bomb/DT yourself either as the designer or the player. If you check the DT box, it means that the aircraft can use DT's with the additional range that you give them. To my knowledge and experience, the weight of the DT's is NOT calculated and the designer is responsible for not exceeding max AC wgt, the game engine does not limit total weight.

If it is an either/or situation, then as a designer you need to modify the AC loadout to account for the DT so that the total does not exceed the AC total weight. This isn't optimal, but the original scenario designers had the same limitations. Go look at some of the aircraft as they are setup in Scen 1 and see how they did it. You will find that they had to make difficult choices as will you. Their criteria often was to setup the plane to allow it to accomplish a known, historical function (mission) that most players will expect to be able to do.

If your scenario is an AI only, then you also have the ability to put some of the onus on you the player. One way is to setup up the normal load out with DT and the extended with DT. Then remember while playing that the aircraft can ONLY be used without DT normal range and MUST use DT for Extended. This is of course a suboptimal solution, but it is one that I have had to use repeatedly.

3) Do centerline guns on aircraft act the same way as frontal guns?

No. Centerline guns are accurate for the entire range of the munition. Wing mounted guns have a convergence zone, meaning they are point slightly inward so that the munition paths all cross at a particular point in front of the AC. This is chosen by the pilot, for this example, call it 100 yds. So at 100 yds the 6 50 cals for most US fighters are all aimed at the same point, so they are punching about a 6"x 6" hole in whatever they hit. however, at 150 yds, they would completely miss even a B17 as they would be shooting around it, the munitions would have crossed and then expanded way outside the target.

So, wing mounted guns required very precise depth perception by the pilot as well as everything else to hit a target, and they have only a narrow distance band in which they can hit their target. C/L guns only require the pilot to estimate the drop over distance of the munitions and can get a hit at virtually any distance.

*If I phrased the second question poorly, here is another attempt. Vildebeests can carry either a drop tank or a torpedo. How can I replicate that?

See above and I would strongly suggest to use the Scen 1 solution, or if you choose not to, then you need to well understand the ramifications of your decision else you will get either a far superior plane than historically possible or a complete dud of a plane.

Good Luck!

[CaptainPeche]

Thanks everyone for the feedback, it is greatly appreciated. I've had my doubts whether in-game accuracy actually depends whethher the guns are centerline or not.

That sounds like a lot of work.

It is, but at the same time it isn't. At the very least, it's somewhat entertaining to make (definetly more interesting than psychology lectures in a STEM university) and I'm certain it would be a lot more fun to play.

As far as the P-40 production went, you would have to subtract all of those sent to training units as well as the Allies plus the Soviets if they received any of those. Not to mention those sunk on cargo ships as well.

For the p-43s, some of the surviving ones went to China after being disassembled and then reassembled in the CBI theatre.

Luckily for me, orders for allied P-40s are separate from the rest (they are acrually signed as Kittyhawks or 'For Lend-lease' in the source I'm using), so I think leaving just 60% of all US P-40Es is fair. Percentages differ depending on the version (specifically, a lot less P-40Fs will be available), but I don't want to bore anyone with details here.

I think only P-43-1s were sent to China and P-43s were left back for home defence. I'll verify this when I get there.

You will get either a far superior plane than historically possible or a complete dud of a plane.

Well, the bomb load of B-17s and B-24s did double and their range got increased, so... Actually, I might have to balance that out either by going with lighter (and ahistorical) bomb loads or by buffing the Japanese. We shall see (I'm currently busy fixing all those LCUs I've added, I'll tell when I get to fixing planes)

[PaxMondo]

You will get either a far superior plane than historically possible or a complete dud of a plane.

Well, the bomb load of B-17s and B-24s did double and their range got increased, so... Actually, I might have to balance that out either by going with lighter (and ahistorical) bomb loads or by buffing the Japanese. We shall see (I'm currently busy fixing all those LCUs I've added, I'll tell when I get to fixing planes)

Again, just look at B-17/24 in Scen 1. What is there is the most accurate representation of those aircraft possible with the game engine. If you digress from those representations, be careful and mindful that you likely have diverged significantly from reality. Remember, we don't have access to the code, they did. We think we know what each cell represents in the database, they did in fact know. And the Air Team in particular was extremely strong and knowledgeable.

Now, if you are designing your own planes and upgrades, that is different. "Fantasy" mods (like the one that I play) can do anything that they want.

[CaptainPeche]

After liberating some of the space previously allocated for the Japanese LCUs, I'm still in need of more space (I still can remove some blank lines between allied units, but then it'd be a mess and I'd rather avoid that). Can I take some of the space allocated for bases and TOEs, or will all the units placed there be treated as templates/bases by the game code?

[PaxMondo]

After liberating some of the space previously allocated for the Japanese LCUs, I'm still in need of more space (I still can remove some blank lines between allied units, but then it'd be a mess and I'd rather avoid that). Can I take some of the space allocated for bases and TOEs, or will all the units placed there be treated as templates/bases by the game code?

I've not tested that, so I don't know.

My mod has only 4 blank lines left for units, and only about 15 left for bases. In stock, you will see areas of the map (China, SOV, USA, Cananda, OZ, and various other areas) where there are roads/RR's and no bases for long spans. I've filled in most of those gaps. Reason being is that the AI does not like empty space, it struggles to both attack and defend across large areas. As I have played a number of games into '46, I have added in 100's of bases into those normally remote areas, because when you play late games these frequently are active areas for some period of the game

I'm pointing this out because if you do use the base area for units, you won't be able to add bases which you may find you want to.

[PaxMondo]

I am also going to offer you this opinion, to use as you choose.

Your changes strongly strengthen the allies, particularly in the early war. So, be aware that if this is a PBEM, you appear to have changed the balance such that very, very few games will last through '43. If the IJ cannot take the DEI by Mar 42 latest, the IJ economy and ability to mount a defense is removed, thus shortening the game considerably. The IJ runs the first 150 days of the war from her pre-war stockpiles. Those must be replenished by the end of that time or the economy simply crashes and the war ends shortly thereafter, literally.

If this is being designed as an AI game, then you are going to need to become quite skilled at updating the AI else none of these units nor map changes will be able to be used by the AI. This is especially true of an allied AI game which would create a VERY interesting test to an IJ player.

I am not making any judgements here (your thesis is quite well thought out), I just want to be sure that you understand the ramifications of some of your changes and that they are going to deliver the game that you want.

My mod also strengthens the allies considerably, as it was designed as an allied AI only mod. Most of my changes were to the air and naval forces as those changes the AI can adapt with little (or no) change. I added only a handful of allied LCU's, but strengthened many of them, especially the reinforcement units. Again, this required only minor changes to the AI. Adding bases to my mod is what required extensive AI updates, hundreds of lines. I also fleshed out the mid and late game scripts as my games tend to go quite long. I made the changes that I did consciously due to the AI scripts. I have figured out some of the techniques that Andy Mac (ALL PRAISE THE ANDY MAC!!) created, but far from all. Thus I did not stray into changes that I could not adapt (or was not confident in my ability to adapt) the AI to .... like new river navigation, offmap bases, or NEW allied units.


Good Luck!!!

[RangerJoe]

I am also going to offer you this opinion, to use as you choose.

Your changes strongly strengthen the allies, particularly in the early war. So, be aware that if this is a PBEM, you appear to have changed the balance such that very, very few games will last through '43. If the IJ cannot take the DEI by Mar 42 latest, the IJ economy and ability to mount a defense is removed, thus shortening the game considerably. The IJ runs the first 150 days of the war from her pre-war stockpiles. Those must be replenished by the end of that time or the economy simply crashes and the war ends shortly thereafter, literally.

If this is being designed as an AI game, then you are going to need to become quite skilled at updating the AI else none of these units nor map changes will be able to be used by the AI. This is especially true of an allied AI game which would create a VERY interesting test to an IJ player.

I am not making any judgements here (your thesis is quite well thought out), I just want to be sure that you understand the ramifications of some of your changes and that they are going to deliver the game that you want.

My mod also strengthens the allies considerably, as it was designed as an allied AI only mod. Most of my changes were to the air and naval forces as those changes the AI can adapt with little (or no) change. I added only a handful of allied LCU's, but strengthened many of them, especially the reinforcement units. Again, this required only minor changes to the AI. Adding bases to my mod is what required extensive AI updates, hundreds of lines. I also fleshed out the mid and late game scripts as my games tend to go quite long. I made the changes that I did consciously due to the AI scripts. I have figured out some of the techniques that Andy Mac (ALL PRAISE THE ANDY MAC!!) created, but far from all. Thus I did not stray into changes that I could not adapt (or was not confident in my ability to adapt) the AI to .... like new river navigation, offmap bases, or NEW allied units.


Good Luck!!!

You might want to contact Andy Mac about your mod with the different AI scripts. He had been waiting for someone to write new scripts for him to try.

Could you imagine a Japanese script to invade Portland 7 days after the Pearl Harbor attack?

[PaxMondo]

You might want to contact Andy Mac about your mod with the different AI scripts. He had been waiting for someone to write new scripts for him to try.

Could you imagine a Japanese script to invade Portland 7 days after the Pearl Harbor attack?

They really aren't new. I simply took his and copied them many, many, many times changing the base numbers a bit. Then the others, I simply took what he had and again copied them and modified the dates. So, yes, I have added hundreds of lines, but they are all his; just slightly modified.

Not surprising, so far they all work as best I can tell. ALL PRAISE THE ANDY MAC!!!!

[RangerJoe]

You might want to contact Andy Mac about your mod with the different AI scripts. He had been waiting for someone to write new scripts for him to try.

Could you imagine a Japanese script to invade Portland 7 days after the Pearl Harbor attack?

They really aren't new. I simply took his and copied them many, many, many times changing the base numbers a bit. Then the others, I simply took what he had and again copied them and modified the dates. So, yes, I have added hundreds of lines, but they are all his; just slightly modified.

Not surprising, so far they all work as best I can tell. ALL PRAISE THE ANDY MAC!!!!

Even so, you still might offer them to him. It would give him a different playing experience. Then he might add more to yours or even modify yours to give you a different game.

[PaxMondo]

You might want to contact Andy Mac about your mod with the different AI scripts. He had been waiting for someone to write new scripts for him to try.

Could you imagine a Japanese script to invade Portland 7 days after the Pearl Harbor attack?

They really aren't new. I simply took his and copied them many, many, many times changing the base numbers a bit. Then the others, I simply took what he had and again copied them and modified the dates. So, yes, I have added hundreds of lines, but they are all his; just slightly modified.

Not surprising, so far they all work as best I can tell. ALL PRAISE THE ANDY MAC!!!!

Even so, you still might offer them to him. It would give him a different playing experience. Then he might add more to yours or even modify yours to give you a different game.

They only work with my mod. granted it started as his insane Ironman v3 which he only posted for a day before he took it down, but even so, I've changed so much and the AI to match it. And the mod is quite .... unique ... with a fair number of manual player rules ...

[RangerJoe]

They really aren't new. I simply took his and copied them many, many, many times changing the base numbers a bit. Then the others, I simply took what he had and again copied them and modified the dates. So, yes, I have added hundreds of lines, but they are all his; just slightly modified.

Not surprising, so far they all work as best I can tell. ALL PRAISE THE ANDY MAC!!!!

Even so, you still might offer them to him. It would give him a different playing experience. Then he might add more to yours or even modify yours to give you a different game.

They only work with my mod. granted it started as his insane Ironman v3 which he only posted for a day before he took it down, but even so, I've changed so much and the AI to match it. And the mod is quite .... unique ... with a fair number of manual player rules ...

That sounds like it might be an actual challenge instead of the usual game over on 1 January 1943 from either side.

[LargeSlowTarget]

CaptainPeche, I would caution you to use base slots or TOE slots for other than their intended purposes, or bad things may happen. If you need more Allied LCU slots, you may want to simplify and reduce the Russian Orbat. It takes up a lot of slots but has a very small chance to be used in a game, and as such is a waste of space. A Japanese player should know how to avoid the activation of Russia before the due date and when that date arrives, Japan should already have bigger problems at the hand of the Western Allies. Start with the Russian units which have a withdrawal date before August 1945, these units are particularly useless. Many sub-units can be eliminated and only the parent units left in-game. Multiple independent units may be combined into forming one larger unit.

[PaxMondo]

CaptainPeche, I would caution you to use base slots or TOE slots for other than their intended purposes, or bad things may happen. If you need more Allied LCU slots, you may want to simplify and reduce the Russian Orbat. It takes up a lot of slots but has a very small chance to be used in a game, and as such is a waste of space. A Japanese player should know how to avoid the activation of Russia before the due date and when that date arrives, Japan should already have bigger problems at the hand of the Western Allies. Start with the Russian units which have a withdrawal date before August 1945, these units are particularly useless. Many sub-units can be eliminated and only the parent units left in-game. Multiple independent units may be combined into forming one larger unit.

This is VERY good advice for a PBEM designed game. In all the AAR's through the years, I only remember one who initiated hostilities early, and that was accidental. They continued the play to see how it went .... poorly, very poorly for the IJ .... lesson learned in PBEM: do not activate the SOV early.

[RangerJoe]

CaptainPeche, I would caution you to use base slots or TOE slots for other than their intended purposes, or bad things may happen. If you need more Allied LCU slots, you may want to simplify and reduce the Russian Orbat. It takes up a lot of slots but has a very small chance to be used in a game, and as such is a waste of space. A Japanese player should know how to avoid the activation of Russia before the due date and when that date arrives, Japan should already have bigger problems at the hand of the Western Allies. Start with the Russian units which have a withdrawal date before August 1945, these units are particularly useless. Many sub-units can be eliminated and only the parent units left in-game. Multiple independent units may be combined into forming one larger unit.

This is VERY good advice for a PBEM designed game. In all the AAR's through the years, I only remember one who initiated hostilities early, and that was accidental. They continued the play to see how it went .... poorly, very poorly for the IJ .... lesson learned in PBEM: do not activate the SOV early.

Oh yes, don't give Stalin any rotten sushi even if he asks for it!

But I remember references to some that were started early and I believe that someone recently did so against a less capable Allied opponent. Then the Allied player was replaced. But some of the Soviet air units switched to aircraft with longer legs and they flew to India. Then they switched back to the short ranged IL-2 flying tanks.