Question, unassign under attack

[Nikel]

Not sure is WAD, a bug or I do not know how to do it, so better to ask before.

Unit of a side under attack, not directly but another unit on your side nearby, should obey the order of unassign? Or continue with the engaged defensive without obeying as is happening?

[thewood1]

I don't think you can unassign from a defensive/offensive mode of a unit. Its an AI state that all based on the environment its in.

[Nikel]

OK, thanks for the answer.

But perhaps I was imprecise, it is the side I am controlling.

The immediate and automatic response to an attack is OK, to defend, but then if ordered to stop, why is not stopping?

[Nikel]

Testing scenario posted in this thread, trying to recreate the final scene of Hunter Killer, both the american sub and the russian destroyer are stopped, however when the missiles are detected, the destroyer moves while engaging defense, even though the attack is on the sub.

Perhaps the solutions is to add a third side.

https://forums.matrixgames.com/viewtopic.php?t=410889

[caelunshun]

Disabling the "auto evade" doctrine setting, either for the unit or globally, should allow you to manually control it.

[Nikel]

Thanks, that is the solution, now the loyal russian destroyer remains by the Arkansas

[blu3s]

Unassign is for missions, has nothing to do with defensive maneuvers.

Also unassign remove the primary targets of an unit, but IMO that was a collateral issue

[Nikel]

I was referring to the U hotkey.

When you click on it, the warship will stop for an instant, but then continue with the engaging defensive or evading moves (with auto evade set to yes).

I thought that the unit would stop whatever it was doing.

[thewood1]

Check your hot key listing U is "unassign".

[caelunshun]

Unassign (U) will unassign a mission, as well as a refueling order or any "engaged offensive" state previously assigned to the unit. But it won't remove "engaged defensive" (well, it will, but only for one tick). It's just one of the many inconsistencies in CMO UX that you have to learn to work with.

[thewood1]

"engaged offensive"

I thought that was only indirectly true. It doesn't "unassign" the action "engaged offensive". It unassigns the target. Which forces it to clear the task. And the "unassign" on "engaged defensive" task makes sense if you think about it. You, as some all-seeing god, tell the pilot to stop being defensive. One pulse later the pilot says to him/her-self that he still in trouble.

[caelunshun]

Yes, you're probably right. However, the program does not communicate to the user very well why their aircraft refuse to disengage, which makes it a sometimes confusing behavior (as this thread suggests)

[Dimitris]

Yes, you're probably right. However, the program does not communicate to the user very well why their aircraft refuse to disengage, which makes it a sometimes confusing behavior (as this thread suggests)

Given that this is an evaluation that happens literally every (simulation) second, for each and every crewed platform in a scenario, how would the program describe this to the player without completely flooding him in notifications or messages?

[Nikel]

This is what happens right now in the unit panel when you try to unassign a unit engaged defensive.

UED.gif (109.17 KiB) Viewed 481 times

[thewood1]

And I think that is the point. Its doing what its supposed to do. Its part of the game.

[caelunshun]

Yes, you're probably right. However, the program does not communicate to the user very well why their aircraft refuse to disengage, which makes it a sometimes confusing behavior (as this thread suggests)

Given that this is an evaluation that happens literally every (simulation) second, for each and every crewed platform in a scenario, how would the program describe this to the player without completely flooding him in notifications or messages?

I don't have an easy solution off the top of my head, but that doesn't change that it's an unintuitive behavior. It's fair enough to expect CMO users to learn to deal with it as they gain experience, but things like this do steepen the learning curve.

[thewood1]

Its as simple as putting a line in the manual that defensive engagement is under control of the self preservation AI.

[caelunshun]

I suppose another option is that when a unit is in "engaged defensive" state and the user unassigns it, then the current threat unit (missile or whatever) is added to a list of "ignored" threats for that unit. In future simulation pulses it will then not engage in auto envasion for that particular threat. This wouldn't compromise on realism (you can already achieve a similar effect by adjusting doctrine) but would allow more fine-grained and intuitive control.

[BDukes]

I agree with the OP, there should be an easy way out of it. This is for two reasons. There are times when the AI makes some suboptimal choices (less so these days), and you already allow tactical choices until the last minute (gonna delete cranking, dragging choices, and turning sensor on and off?). I also think just reloading a save works fine

I think we understand that living with the consequences of our choices is part of a game, but I'm not sure behaviors are always so predictable as to be entirely responsible for them. Some of the AI refueling choices can be excruciating (you all know this if you play!). A game ref in real life would probably back up and restart the status sequence above, given enough understanding that a weird sub-optimal behavior is occurring.

I wouldn't dig too deep into displaying messages for specific behaviors. Just allow it to be undone. Coding to it could be nebulous, and you're really just coming to the same outcome. Anyways.. i can save and load a save so no major doop dee doo over this one I think.

Mike

[Tcao]

This is what happens right now in the unit panel when you try to unassign a unit engaged defensive.



UED.gif

The only solution is to change the defensive doctrine. Go to the unit's ROE (or mission ROE, side ROE, depends on what you want to achieve ) and change automatic defensive to "No"