Soviet captured weapons in German service

[Wiedrock]

It's always hard to find actual numbers since those guns are not listed in many reports. Accidentially I found some reports about Ammunition requirements/needs/plannings for guns. I assume because the Wehrmacht started production for several Soviet calibers/weapons.
In NARA T78 R0163, (the whole Roll is somewhat of a mess) these Reprots are not having a date (at least I didnt find one), but with comparing production plannings/"have" numbers of other production reports for German guns (e.g. Pak40) in the Roll is for sure dated ~summer 1943 (May/June/July).

Code: Select all

name			report		ingame("max produced")
7,62cm Pak36		481+21(repairs)		800
7,62cm IKH290		2289+231(repairs)	900
12,2cm K390		127			25
12,2cm sFH396		621			100
15,2cm KH433		913			300

So it seems like Wehrmacht (from this report) used way more of those guns than are currently even able to be converted.
The exception is the Pak36 - here the interesting part is that they calculated Paks with much higher %-losses monthly.

Following another Source, listing Wehrmacht inventory of captured guns on 1st March 1944.

translated_image_en(5).png (12.57 KiB) Viewed 523 times

i_148.png (96.34 KiB) Viewed 523 times

i_149.png (54.19 KiB) Viewed 523 times

[MechFO]

Code: Select all

name			report		ingame("max produced")
7,62cm Pak36		481+21(repairs)		800
7,62cm IKH290		2289+231(repairs)	900
12,2cm K390		127			25
12,2cm sFH396		621			100
15,2cm KH433		913			300

So it seems like Wehrmacht (from this report) used way more of those guns than are currently even able to be converted.
The exception is the Pak36 - here the interesting part is that they calculated Paks with much higher %-losses monthly.

RH 10/63



7.62 Pak36 does look high. "Eingesetzt seit 15 Monaten" per October 1943 means service entry July 1942.

Unfortunately documents lists Sf Pak totals only.

[Wiedrock]

7.62 Pak36 does look high. "Eingesetzt seit 15 Monaten" per October 1943 means service entry July 1942.

Unfortunately documents lists Sf Pak totals only.

Yep, taking 1st July numbers it seems like the 481 number includes the SP Guns (understandably since its an Ammo report). Without the SP it's been 321. But that 321 again then includes 7,62cm K (r) ....whichever types that then may be, there have been plenty of FK(r).

NARA T78 R167_76mmPaks.png (1.21 MiB) Viewed 500 times

RH 10/63

The numbers on 1st July look somewhat low compared to quartermaster numbers.
Medium (Pak38+97/38) they list 4213+1538=5751 versus 4695.
Heavy (Pak40+41+7,62cmX(r)) they list 3203+76+321=3600 versus 2744. (The 3203 are already without all the SP.)

[MechFO]

7.62 Pak36 does look high. "Eingesetzt seit 15 Monaten" per October 1943 means service entry July 1942.

Unfortunately documents lists Sf Pak totals only.

Yep, taking 1st July numbers it seems like the 481 number includes the SP Guns (understandably since its an Ammo report). Without the SP it's been 321. But that 321 again then includes 7,62cm K (r) ....whichever types that then may be, there have been plenty of FK(r).
NARA T78 R167_76mmPaks.png

RH 10/63

The numbers on 1st July look somewhat low compared to quartermaster numbers.
Medium (Pak38+97/38) they list 4213+1538=5751 versus 4695.
Heavy (Pak40+41+7,62cmX(r)) they list 3203+76+321=3600 versus 2744. (The 3203 are already without all the SP.)

I assume the difference will be mainly from Ersatzheer and maybe some SS units that are forming.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/8

Assuming 447 is total for Pak36+Sf for October 43 - 69 sf (Blatt 204) - 141 sf (Blatt 210) = 237 which is the same as the PAK 36 numbers from Blatt 40. The below loss statistic doesn't note the 7.62 (K) r as a seperate category either, so they must have been included in there. Work back from 237+ 447 losses =684.

IMO leave it.


General information on loss rates is here

RH 10/77K

[Wiedrock]

IMO leave it.

Sounds reasonable.

Yea I was anyways rather pointing out that some numbers in game seem rather low (not high), when there was actual at one point in time more in service then ever possibly converted in game at all. (also see the the 1944 report (yellow marked areas), I did not "properly combine-analyse" all the numbers, what I listed was just the Ammo vs Ingame values.)

[MechFO]

It's always hard to find actual numbers since those guns are not listed in many reports. Accidentially I found some reports about Ammunition requirements/needs/plannings for guns. I assume because the Wehrmacht started production for several Soviet calibers/weapons.
In NARA T78 R0163, (the whole Roll is somewhat of a mess) these Reprots are not having a date (at least I didnt find one), but with comparing production plannings/"have" numbers of other production reports for German guns (e.g. Pak40) in the Roll is for sure dated ~summer 1943 (May/June/July).

Code: Select all

name			report		ingame("max produced")
7,62cm Pak36		481+21(repairs)		800
7,62cm IKH290		2289+231(repairs)	900
12,2cm K390		127			25
12,2cm sFH396		621			100
15,2cm KH433		913			300

So it seems like Wehrmacht (from this report) used way more of those guns than are currently even able to be converted.
The exception is the Pak36 - here the interesting part is that they calculated Paks with much higher %-losses monthly.

Following another Source, listing Wehrmacht inventory of captured guns on 1st March 1944.

translated_image_en(5).pngi_148.pngi_149.png

From Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie

Heereswaffenamt inventory per 01.12.42 (not complete) (my comment: from what I've seen the first widespread issueing of captured guns outside of coastal defence was supposed to happen in early 43 with the rebuilding of the artillery units lost at Stalingrad, so this is probably fairly complete, would have to be cross referenced with coastal artillery)

Type guns with breech

8.76 KH 280 (e) 48 5
23.4cm Haub 546 (e) 16 1
24cm Kan 556 (f) 12 12
28cm Mör 601 (f) 93 93
37cm Mör 710 (f) 9 9
12.2cm lFH 388 (r) 917 709
12.2cm Kan 390/1 (r) 147 120
12.2cm Kan 390/2 (r) 277 237
12.2cm sFH 396 (r) 832 580 (my comment, this being classed as sFH is a surprise, I'm sure Iv'e seen a directive or document somewhere where all 12.2cm weapons are to be considered lFH but this might well be from later date)

15.2cm K.H. 433/1 (r) 926 759
15.2cm K.H, 433/2 (r) 48 42

Yea I was anyways rather pointing out that some numbers in game seem rather low (not high), when there was actual at one point in time more in service then ever possibly converted in game at all. (also see the the 1944 report (yellow marked areas), I did not "properly combine-analyse" all the numbers, what I listed was just the Ammo vs Ingame values.)

Yes, that is the case for several guns, especially flak.

[MechFO]

Some more numbers from same source as above

01.02.1942 Geschütz und Munitionsbestand Feldheer (so excluding Ersatzheer, coastal units unless subordinated to Heer, Waffenamt etc., only going to list guns)

7.5cm FK18 56
lFH 5802
10cm Kan 17 40
10cm Kan 18 544
sFH 2284
15cm Kan 16 21
15cm Kan 18 45
15cm Kan 39 33
17cm Kan (Mörlaff) 15
lang 21cm Mör 45
21cm Mör 18 351
21cm Kan 39 14
24cm Kan 39 8
24cm Kan 3 4
35.5cm Mör 1 1
Gamma k.A.
28cm (Küsten-)Hau L12 k.A.

Beute:
8cm FK (t) 76
lFH 14/19 (t) 176
10.5cm sKan 35 (t) 108
15cm Kan 15/16 (t) 4
sFH 25 (t) 64
sFH 37 (t) 36
kurz 21cm Mörs (t) 15
24cm Kan (t) 6
30.5cm Mör (t) 16


Bestand 01.10.41

7.5cm FK18 48
lFH 5902
10cm Kan 17 40
10cm Kan 18 524
sFH 2232
15cm Kan 16 21
15cm Kan 18 42
15cm Kan 39 36
17cm Kan (Mörlaff) 15
lang 21cm Mör 21
21cm Mör 18 344
21cm Kan 39 14
24cm Kan 39 8
24cm Kan 3 6
35.5cm Mör 1 1
Gamma k.A.
28cm (Küsten-)Hau L12 k.A.

Beute:
8cm FK (t) 72
lFH 14/19 (t) 144
10.5cm sKan 35 (t) 108
15cm Kan 15/16 (t) 4
sFH 25 (t) 12
sFH 37 (t) 36
kurz 21cm Mörs (t) 15
24cm Kan (t) 6
30.5cm Mör (t) 16

Bestand 01.06.41

7.5cm FK18 0
lFH 5800
10cm Kan 17 40
10cm Kan 18 508
sFH 2208
15cm Kan 16 7
15cm Kan 18 30
15cm Kan 39 26
15cm Kan (Mörlaff) 8
17cm Kan (Mörlaff) 15
lang 21cm Mör 21
21cm Mör 18 306
21cm Kan 39 12
24cm Kan 39 8
24cm Kan 3 6
35.5cm Mör 1 1
Gamma k.A.
28cm (Küsten-)Hau L12 k.A.

Beute:
8cm FK (t) 72
lFH 14/19 (t) 144
10.5cm sKan 35 (t) 108
15cm Kan 15/16 (t) 4
sFH 25 (t) 72
sFH 37 (t) 36
kurz 21cm Mörs (t) 15
24cm Kan (t) 6
30.5cm Mör (t) 16

[MechFO]

Following another Source, listing Wehrmacht inventory of captured guns on 1st March 1944.

translated_image_en(5).pngi_148.pngi_149.png

Same source as above. It would be nice if one could do a proper table but oh well.

Rüstungskonzentration - gefordere Verschrottung von Beutegeschützen

Liste Beutegeschütze gemäss Besprechung Org. Abt., General der Artillerie im OKH, B.d.E./A.H.A Ib und Feldzeug-Inspekteur.

Bestand November 1943 und Mai 1944 (my comment, only one identical number which seems strange and no indication which guns were scrapped)

3.7cm IK 152 (f) 33
7.5cm FK 8 (g) 47
7.5cm FK (j) 48
7.5cm FK 239 (j) 60
7.5cm GebK 228 (b) 3
7.62 FK 294 (r) 78
7.62 GebK 307 (r) 104
7.62 GebK 293 (r) 73
8.5 KH 287 (g) 5
10.5cm GebH 323 (f) 5
10.7 Kan 352 (r) 167
10.7 sKan 353 (r) 8
11.4cm lFH 362 (r) 46
11.4cm lFH 361 (e) 9
12cm lFH 373 (h) 33
12.2cm lFH 386 (r) 314
12.2cm lFH 388 (r) bespannt 1229
12.2cm lFH 388 (r) Kraftzug 583
15cm sFH (t) u. (ö) u. M14 (ö) 34
15cm sFH 409 (b) 54
15.2cm Kan 438 (r) 63
15.2cm sFH 443 (r) 381
15.2cm sFH 445 (r) 921
15.2cm sFH 446 (r) 14
15.2cm sFH 449 (r) 2
15.2cm sFH 415 (f) 108 (my comment, 15.2 must be typo for 15.5)
20.3cm H 503 (r) 30
20.3cm Mör 523/1 (a) 19
22cm Kan 532 (f) Spreizlaff 2
22cm Kan 532 (f) Halbkettenlaff 1
27.4cm KW (E) (f) 1893/96 3
27.4cm KW (E) (f) 1893/96 auf Kaliber 28.65 aufgebohrt 1
28cm Mör 602 (f) 23
34cm Kan (E) (f) 2
30.5cm Mör 639 (j) 2
37cm Kan (E) 714 (f) 4
32cm Kan (E) 632 (f) 4

Identical list per 29.11.1944 is nearly empty with only 85 7.62 294 (r), 115 7.62 GebK 307 (r), and two heavy Jugoslav/French guns listed, This makes me unsure if the above is is supposed to be a subset of the guns with Waffenamt that was to be scrapped, or a combination of to be scrapped guns and the rest being issued. The TOE for some Stützpunkte and Festungen I've seen had large gun numbers and this was also the time that the captured guns show in the Feldheer on a large scale, so even the large inventories above could have been run down by November 44.

[Denniss]

12.2cm sFH 396 (r) 832 580 (my comment, this being classed as sFH is a surprise, I'm sure Iv'e seen a directive or document somewhere where all 12.2cm weapons are to be considered lFH but this might well be from later date

maybe they made an exception for this rather modern gun

[Wiedrock]

Identical list per 29.11.1944 is nearly empty with only 85 7.62 294 (r), 115 7.62 GebK 307 (r), and two heavy Jugoslav/French guns listed, This makes me unsure if the above is is supposed to be a subset of the guns with Waffenamt that was to be scrapped, or a combination of to be scrapped guns and the rest being issued. The TOE for some Stützpunkte and Festungen I've seen had large gun numbers and this was also the time that the captured guns show in the Feldheer on a large scale, so even the large inventories above could have been run down by November 44.

In both, West and East 1944 was a bad year. I'd not be surprised about "weirdly disappearing/reducing" numbers for guns all that much considering all the overruns/pockets/encircled fortress cities and so on.
But it's also possible that many got scrapped due to spareparts/barrel/ammo issues.
What I could generally imagine doing is to apply some "reliability" ratings to converted guns to simulate issues they faced, but I never tested how this works (or if at all with non-"AFVs").

Following another Source, listing Wehrmacht inventory of captured guns on 1st March 1944.

translated_image_en(5).pngi_148.pngi_149.png

Same source as above. It would be nice if one could do a proper table but oh well.

Rüstungskonzentration - gefordere Verschrottung von Beutegeschützen

Liste Beutegeschütze gemäss Besprechung Org. Abt., General der Artillerie im OKH, B.d.E./A.H.A Ib und Feldzeug-Inspekteur.

Bestand November 1943 und Mai 1944 (my comment, only one identical number which seems strange and no indication which guns were scrapped)

Can't follow that. Which Date is the list now from? I assume 1943 because it has way larger numbers than the 1944 I've posted initially?!

[MechFO]

12.2cm sFH 396 (r) 832 580 (my comment, this being classed as sFH is a surprise, I'm sure Iv'e seen a directive or document somewhere where all 12.2cm weapons are to be considered lFH but this might well be from later date

maybe they made an exception for this rather modern gun

Nothing to do with modernity, but approximate effect and logistics requirements. Looked it up and can confirm that the 396 (r) also only served in lFH Abteilungen per 1944.

Gun weight can also not have been a factor with only 2200 kg when in a firing postion, compared to 1900kg for a lFH 18/40 and 5500kg for a sFH 18.

[MechFO]

Identical list per 29.11.1944 is nearly empty with only 85 7.62 294 (r), 115 7.62 GebK 307 (r), and two heavy Jugoslav/French guns listed, This makes me unsure if the above is is supposed to be a subset of the guns with Waffenamt that was to be scrapped, or a combination of to be scrapped guns and the rest being issued. The TOE for some Stützpunkte and Festungen I've seen had large gun numbers and this was also the time that the captured guns show in the Feldheer on a large scale, so even the large inventories above could have been run down by November 44.

In both, West and East 1944 was a bad year. I'd not be surprised about "weirdly disappearing/reducing" numbers for guns all that much considering all the overruns/pockets/encircled fortress cities and so on.
But it's also possible that many got scrapped due to spareparts/barrel/ammo issues.
What I could generally imagine doing is to apply some "reliability" ratings to converted guns to simulate issues they faced, but I never tested how this works (or if at all with non-"AFVs").

Following another Source, listing Wehrmacht inventory of captured guns on 1st March 1944.

Same source as above. It would be nice if one could do a proper table but oh well.

Rüstungskonzentration - gefordere Verschrottung von Beutegeschützen

Liste Beutegeschütze gemäss Besprechung Org. Abt., General der Artillerie im OKH, B.d.E./A.H.A Ib und Feldzeug-Inspekteur.

Bestand November 1943 und Mai 1944 (my comment, only one identical number which seems strange and no indication which guns were scrapped)

Can't follow that. Which Date is the list now from? I assume 1943 because it has way larger numbers than the 1944 I've posted initially?!

Supposedly the above numbers apply to both dates, but now additional information from "...Heeresartillerie im Jahr 1944, Wolfgang Fleischer"

On 15 May 1944 " ...umfassende Verschrottung für Geschütze und Werfer werden angeordnet, für die weder eine Munitions- noch Gerätefertigung lief...."
"Das Betraf 49 Modelle von Geschützen und Werfern aller Art, ingesamt 82'792 Stück."

IMO my posted list above is the number of Artillery guns that are given free for scrapping. I discounted this originally due to the large numbers of 388 (r) and 443 (r), but the complete lack of guns that were in long time large scale use like 414 (f), 416 (f) and 531 (f) IMO points to this.

I can't read the column headings in your Russian source but I guess left would be "in service", and right "on hand", but again for whom? Feldheer only, or everything including coastal and Waffenamt. The large numbers of 416 (f) points to at least some coastal artillery units being included as this was a common type for them, but then early 1944 is also when large numbers of coastal Artillery units were transferrd to the Feldheer.

The only cross reference I have at hand is for your Russian source are the 12.2cm K 390/1 (r) numbers, from the above book. It states "übernahm die deutsche Wehrmacht 424 Stück". While equipping schw Art Abt 993, and Bttr each in 456, 457 and 470.

However the above list is certainly incomplete, a quick serch in my Artillery Errata Thread https://forums.matrixgames.com/viewtopi ... 6#p4890196 shows several additional units showing them in their strength reports but the 11 could account for the Ist Stärke of 993 on 1st March 1944, while the other units only received them after that date. However the 390 were also issue to Divisonal Artillery around that date, as seen here https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/7, and then the 11 is too low for the entire Feldheer.

So IMO your Russian list is likely something like guns available for OKH.

[MechFO]

Unfortunately no army wide overview, but the list of reinforcements for a landing in France has a summary of all weapons in France at the beginning of 1944 plus the intended reinforcements, and there are a lot of captures in there.
RH 3/288








Other cases in that file as well, f.e. Greece, Norway, etc. so in theory one could probably construct captures in use in the West, by totalling the left Rohrzahl column for all theaters.

[Wiedrock]

IMO my posted list above is the number of Artillery guns that are given free for scrapping. I discounted this originally due to the large numbers of 388 (r) and 443 (r), but the complete lack of guns that were in long time large scale use like 414 (f), 416 (f) and 531 (f) IMO points to this.

See BArch RH 2/2101 page 32 onwards "Bestand an Beutegerät aus dem Ostfeldzug bei den Feldzeugdienststellen in der Heimat, Stand: 1. Okt., 1. Nov., 1. Dez. 1944, 1. Jan. 1945".
This may give further hints on what happened to the (Russian) stuff in your list, since it contains a separate column "ausgesondert"/scrapped.
Contains reports from later 1944, didn't dig deeper into it yet, watch out it's also listing spare/repair parts and so on.

[MechFO]

IMO my posted list above is the number of Artillery guns that are given free for scrapping. I discounted this originally due to the large numbers of 388 (r) and 443 (r), but the complete lack of guns that were in long time large scale use like 414 (f), 416 (f) and 531 (f) IMO points to this.

See BArch RH 2/2101 page 32 onwards "Bestand an Beutegerät aus dem Ostfeldzug bei den Feldzeugdienststellen in der Heimat, Stand: 1. Okt., 1. Nov., 1. Dez. 1944, 1. Jan. 1945".
This may give further hints on what happened to the (Russian) stuff in your list, since it contains a separate column "ausgesondert"/scrapped.
Contains reports from later 1944, didn't dig deeper into it yet, watch out it's also listing spare/repair parts and so on.

Great find.

IMO take the January 1945 page 108 ff "abgegeben....", take the sum of the columns 4-7 and call it a day.

To discuss would be to at least partially take out the "6"-"der Marine", since the coastal units are not modelled and swallow a huge number of guns. Also large numbers of PAK must have been swallowed by issuing equipment outside of the official "soll", like f.e. the extra PAKs given to Artillery units that show 43 onward and the huge number of Landesschützen and other Rear area troops which don't show up either.

[Wiedrock]

Following another Source, listing Wehrmacht inventory of captured guns on 1st March 1944.

translated_image_en(5).pngi_148.pngi_149.png

Same source as above. It would be nice if one could do a proper table but oh well.

Rüstungskonzentration - gefordere Verschrottung von Beutegeschützen

Liste Beutegeschütze gemäss Besprechung Org. Abt., General der Artillerie im OKH, B.d.E./A.H.A Ib und Feldzeug-Inspekteur.

Bestand November 1943 und Mai 1944 (my comment, only one identical number which seems strange and no indication which guns were scrapped)

3.7cm IK 152 (f) 33
7.5cm FK 8 (g) 47
7.5cm FK (j) 48
7.5cm FK 239 (j) 60
7.5cm GebK 228 (b) 3
7.62 FK 294 (r) 78
7.62 GebK 307 (r) 104
7.62 GebK 293 (r) 73
8.5 KH 287 (g) 5
10.5cm GebH 323 (f) 5
10.7 Kan 352 (r) 167
10.7 sKan 353 (r) 8
11.4cm lFH 362 (r) 46
11.4cm lFH 361 (e) 9
12cm lFH 373 (h) 33
12.2cm lFH 386 (r) 314
12.2cm lFH 388 (r) bespannt 1229
12.2cm lFH 388 (r) Kraftzug 583
15cm sFH (t) u. (ö) u. M14 (ö) 34
15cm sFH 409 (b) 54
15.2cm Kan 438 (r) 63
15.2cm sFH 443 (r) 381
15.2cm sFH 445 (r) 921
15.2cm sFH 446 (r) 14
15.2cm sFH 449 (r) 2
15.2cm sFH 415 (f) 108 (my comment, 15.2 must be typo for 15.5)
20.3cm H 503 (r) 30
20.3cm Mör 523/1 (a) 19
22cm Kan 532 (f) Spreizlaff 2
22cm Kan 532 (f) Halbkettenlaff 1
27.4cm KW (E) (f) 1893/96 3
27.4cm KW (E) (f) 1893/96 auf Kaliber 28.65 aufgebohrt 1
28cm Mör 602 (f) 23
34cm Kan (E) (f) 2
30.5cm Mör 639 (j) 2
37cm Kan (E) 714 (f) 4
32cm Kan (E) 632 (f) 4

Identical list per 29.11.1944 is nearly empty with only 85 7.62 294 (r), 115 7.62 GebK 307 (r), and two heavy Jugoslav/French guns listed, This makes me unsure if the above is is supposed to be a subset of the guns with Waffenamt that was to be scrapped, or a combination of to be scrapped guns and the rest being issued. The TOE for some Stützpunkte and Festungen I've seen had large gun numbers and this was also the time that the captured guns show in the Feldheer on a large scale, so even the large inventories above could have been run down by November 44.

I think the Numbers shown in (all) of your Lists you've posted are the Pools inside the "Feldzeugdienststellen in der Heimat".
So columns 7+8+9 of the Feldzeuginstepktions reports we have from late 1945.

Identical list per 29.11.1944 is nearly empty with only 85 7.62 294 (r), 115 7.62 GebK 307 (r)

MechFO_List_RH_2_2101_0092.jpg (263.84 KiB) Viewed 189 times

[MechFO]

Just posting a nice example of the eclectic mix of guns that could be found in late war German units.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/8

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/8

[Wiedrock]

Those few Divisions have 3 ZiS-3 already in service.

Any idea why (see post above) the 288 (r) ...which was the ZiS-3, which in return was the (afaik) latest 76.2mm the Soviets had was so hard to get into units? I struggle to make sense of this fact having 594 in pools and only getting 95 into service until 12/45?!
All this while lacking heavy Pak all over the place...

[MechFO]

Those few Divisions have 3 ZiS-3 already in service.

Any idea why (see post above) the 288 (r) ...which was the ZiS-3, which in return was the (afaik) latest 76.2mm the Soviets had was so hard to get into units? I struggle to make sense of this fact having 594 in pools and only getting 95 into service until 12/45?!
All this while lacking heavy Pak all over the place...

All being Instandsetzungsbedürftig I thought it might be due to work needed to accept PAK40 ammo, actually it was due to work needed to accept PzGr39 (Soviet shell with PAK40 cartridge).



https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic ... r#p2032605

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic ... ilit=288+r

So it seems that all 7.62cmFK that were reworked to PAK36 standard (298 (r), 288(r), and ?) which included at least acceptance of PzGr39, but could also include other modifications, kept the FK designation with Waffenamt documents, but were otherwise designated PAK36. https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic ... 0#p1937448

Shorter barrel guns (at least the 297 (r) confirmed, which others?), that were also reworked for PzGr39 were given Pak39 designaton but from 1943 could also be FK39 if in an Artillery unit (applied to all PAK per above thread).

So you could Pak36 in an Artillery unit as FK36, while the same gun in a PAK unit would be PAK 36.

While the various unmodified 7.62cm kept the less powerful Soviet cartridge and kept the FK designation in all documents.

I can see how the above would lead to confusion depending on what kind of list you are looking at.

[Denniss]

With Beutenummer it was a mostly unchanged russian gun, FK36/39 were still using the original ammo but had multiple modifications to the carriage. Pak36/39 had a bored-out chamber to accept the longer Pak 40 ammo but that ammo had to be modified to fit into this gun (the driving bands were a tad wider to fit into the larger caliber barrel). Further gun modification was a muzzle break and stronger recoil mechanism