Indian Fury #3, missiles are crap

[bladesinger79]

Ok, Indian Fury #1 and #2 were scratchy because the game slowed down. So I skipped these and tried #3. Sent 8x F14s to attack the aircraft at Socotra Island. I must have fired all 32 phoenix missiles and shot down about 4 or 5. Got frustrated and tried again. Roughly the same results. Boiling, I started a third time in editor mode and kept track of the values. Fired a total of 21x AIM-54Cs and 5x AIM-7M. For the Phoenix missiles, I waited until the ranges were about 35-50nm for a higher percentage hit chances. The results were a dismal 6 kills, less than 25%. Furious to the point of breaking things, I paused the game and came here for a solution to this. Here are the values of each Phoenix missile shot. The first number is the final hit pct, the second is the known results. Otherwise if the missile ran out of energy, it's listed as a ? The second column lists the Sparrows
72-98 68-95
? 77-74 KILL
? 66-72
72-57 KILL 71-86
72-32 KILL ?
74-100
72-43 KILL
?
53-59
?
?
73-86
73-100
?
65-91
72-56 KILL
66-62 KILL
75-97
?
73-77
75-93

NATO can't be this bad, nor could WP be so good. So, what's up with this? Are the Indian Fury scenarios just a glutton for punishment?

[Dimitris]

Looking at the final PHs, in most cases your spread was between 62-75%, so a fair chance of success (your self-restraint on firing range was wise). The breaks just didn't turn out your way, in most cases.

Must-read IMHO: https://unherd.com/2021/07/what-warhamm ... bout-life/

[fitzpatv]

I'm actually surprised that you got such good chances to hit. I normally use Phoenixes at about 20nm range and (where the scenario permits) set BVR doctrine to Follow Missile Straight In to stop them going blind as the F-14 cranks.

As Dimitris says, things didn't go your way with the virtual dice. This sort of thing happens an awful lot, however, making it hard to credit that it is just a matter of luck. It would be interesting to know more about how the combat results algorithm works - but we've been here before...

[thewood1]

Also keep in mind the AIM-54 is a very odd AAM. You can fire direct path to around 20-30nm or long range lofting shots out to max range. But there is a middle range of 40-70 nm where F-14 pilots wouldn't use it. It had poor performance in that range. Its why the AIM-120 was developed as a gap filler.

[TyphoonFr]

"Know your enemy and know yourself. If you ignore your enemy and know yourself, your chances of victory and defeat will be equal." Sun Tzu

Your opponents have aircraft whose AA missiles do not exceed a maximum range of 5 nm for the MIG-19/21, 27 nm for the MIG-23, and 32 nm for the MIG-29. And their radar has a range of 50 nm. They encounter the same problems as you if they fire at maximum range, and will therefore perhaps fire between 50 and 75% (16 and 24 nm).
You maintain the advantage by firing your AIM-54s at 40 nm (40%).

To learn more about your enemy in the scenario:
"Game" Menu > "Browse Scenario Platforms"

"In Operation with the US Navy"
While this missile is a great technological achievement, it is large, expensive, difficult to maintain, and the mission for which it was designed (the protection of the American fleet) has never been used. During the only major conflict in which it was deployed, the Gulf War in 1991, the air superiority mission was assigned to the US Air Force's McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle. However, three Phoenixes were fired in combat by the US Navy, two on January 5, 1999, against Iraqi MiG-25s. then another on September 9th against a MiG-23 of the same nationality. All these shots failed. In the first case, the missiles had not been armed correctly before takeoff, and during the shot, their engine did not ignite. In the second, the MiG-23 changed direction and accelerated, putting itself out of range of the missile." Wikipedia

[thewood1]

On the other hand, the AIM-54 was used fairly successfully in the Iran-Iraq war. The Iraqis were very aware and somewhat afraid of Tomcats because of the Phoenix. They built their missions around avoiding it. It not perfect, but can be effective at the right time.