[1676] No ABM intercept from Sky Bow and Patriot MIM-104F

[Dimitris]

This line also appears, not very informative.


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Both of these ^ negative statements are usually a strong indication that the target has been either detected or FCR-grade-tracked too late in the interception timeline. BMD relies heavily (much more so than AAW/ABT) on early detection & tracking, because the reaction and engagement window is so much more limited in time.

[Dimitris]

There must be a good strategy in place to manage all the "open" issues

Maybe they should hire you to do a better job.

[Nikel]

Both of these ^ negative statements are usually a strong indication that the target has been either detected or FCR-grade-tracked too late in the interception timeline. BMD relies heavily (much more so than AAW/ABT) on early detection & tracking, because the reaction and engagement window is so much more limited in time.

Thanks, and what early detection systems could work in this case?

Tried with the upgraded Pave Paws 3 faces, with the pair of AN/TPY-2 and all the US SBIRS sats and still they do not engage.

[caelunshun]

Try the (extremely overkill) SBX-1 radar. If that doesn't work then nothing will, in which case it's likely a bug.

[Nikel]

Try the (extremely overkill) SBX-1 radar. If that doesn't work then nothing will, in which case it's likely a bug.

Added one of them for each coast.

There are differences, they detect the incoming missiles very early and accurately and the first imprecise target message does not appear.

However the red CEC and unable to intercept messages still appear for the PAC-3.

In the terminal phase it becomes green, but is too late to make a difference over the PAC-2, they are fired but wasted, because the Chinese missiles already destroyed the target or were intercepted by the PAC-2.

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[morphin]

Try the (extremely overkill) SBX-1 radar. If that doesn't work then nothing will, in which case it's likely a bug.

Added one of them for each coast.

There are differences, they detect the incoming missiles very early and accurately and the first imprecise target message does not appear.

However the red CEC and unable to intercept messages still appear for the PAC-3.

In the terminal phase it becomes green, but is too late to make a difference over the PAC-2, they are fired but wasted, because the Chinese missiles already destroyed the target or were intercepted by the PAC-2.

G.png

I can confirm this

[morphin]

So i never managed to launch a single Sky Bow III against a ballistic missile. I had assumed that at least launching missiles against ABM should be possible with a maybe limited probabiliy of hit. It seems to me that the consensus from CMO experts is that in this weapon is not capable to intercept these missiles. If that correspond to the reality than a good part from the Tawain's plans relies on deterrence and the spread of disinformation? I was surprised and impressed, as I had always assumed that Taiwan possessed a well-developed and sophisticated defense industry, and I believed them capable of producing such a weapon. But I'm far from being an expert on Taiwan's defense industry.....

[morphin]

another edit...I got the 104Fs to fire with no issues. Its set up to fire the Es first. I set the WRA for the Fs to be longer ranged than the Es for the eastern SAM site and it rippled the missiles right on time.

Do you have a savefile for this? I can not reproduce this. I also set WRA to max for the F's and only 30nm for the Es. I even removed the E's launcher so only Fs rest.....

Thank's

[thewood1]

So i never managed to launch a single Sky Bow III against a ballistic missile. I had assumed that at least launching missiles against ABM should be possible with a maybe limited probabiliy of hit. It seems to me that the consensus from CMO experts is that in this weapon is not capable to intercept these missiles. If that correspond to the reality than a good part from the Tawain's plans relies on deterrence and the spread of disinformation? I was surprised and impressed, as I had always assumed that Taiwan possessed a well-developed and sophisticated defense industry, and I believed them capable of producing such a weapon. But I'm far from being an expert on Taiwan's defense industry.....

Just from an amateur's perspective, I am not impressed with the Sky Bow in and variation on paper. It very limited to SRBM defense. Its intercept window is very limited. Its why Patriots and THAAD are scattered around the area. In fact, the SAM is kind of a Franken-missile with pieces from Hawks, Patriots, and some indigenous parts combined. SB III looks lore like a stepping stone of development for Taiwan's industry.

[thewood1]

another edit...I got the 104Fs to fire with no issues. Its set up to fire the Es first. I set the WRA for the Fs to be longer ranged than the Es for the eastern SAM site and it rippled the missiles right on time.

Do you have a savefile for this? I can not reproduce this. I also set WRA to max for the F's and only 30nm for the Es. I even removed the E's launcher so only Fs rest.....

Thank's

I didn't save it, but can rebuild it. The other thing to try is just remove the E launchers in the editor. Thats actually easier.

[morphin]

another edit...I got the 104Fs to fire with no issues. Its set up to fire the Es first. I set the WRA for the Fs to be longer ranged than the Es for the eastern SAM site and it rippled the missiles right on time.

Do you have a savefile for this? I can not reproduce this. I also set WRA to max for the F's and only 30nm for the Es. I even removed the E's launcher so only Fs rest.....

Thank's

I didn't save it, but can rebuild it. The other thing to try is just remove the E launchers in the editor. Thats actually easier.

I actually have removed the Es launcher, and tried 2 times but each time no weapon launch occured.....
Thank's

[CarlTheRadarNerd]

I’ve encountered the same issue with other SAM facilities that use ARH/IR (or combination of seekers), such as Sa-21a/b (40N6 - ARH) , David’s Sling (Stunner - ARH/IIR/EO), S-350 (9M96DM - ARH), and SAMP/T (aster 30 and aster 30 block 1NT - ARH). This is for terminal phase interceptions (under 100km in altitude).

However, SAM sites that use SARH/TVM guidance are working for ABM interceptions such as PAC-2/PAC-2 GEM/PAC-2 GEM+, S-300PM, S-300PMU/PMU2, SA-21 (48N6 series).

Hq-19 not working for exoatmospheric/endoatmospheric ABM interceptions. THAAD works sometimes, other times does not. SM-3 / AEGIS ashore seems to be working though.

[morphin]

Newest Beta 1706 seems to fix it. Also for Sky Bow III i add the MPQ-65 and this also now works are workaround. Thank's so much. Now i can continue to play

Anybody suggest an alternative to MPQ-65 to add to Sky Bow III?

[Dimitris]

Newest Beta 1706 seems to fix it. Also for Sky Bow III i add the MPQ-65 and this also now works are workaround. Thank's so much. Now i can continue to play

What exactly is fixed in B1706? You've piled up a number of different things in a single thread so now it's not clear what is fixed and what is still an open issue.

(This is why we ask for "one issue, one thread" BTW)