Crusade in Europe 20km Pre-Release Thread

[OldCrowBalthazor]

https://www.dropbox.com/t/xY9diyEG8DKTIkco

Copy out of the transfer folder to your game folder, Sept39 folders and the Sept39 application.

What is this? Did Elessar give you permission to use his map? A couple of us are privately SP testing his mod prior to some MP tests. I just spoke to him today earlier before you posted this '1939' mod here and on a separate thread. He told me explicitly that he has not given permission to anyone else to use elements of his Crusade in Europe 20k Mod until this thing was done and completed, if permission was to be granted at all.

[Elessar2]

No, permission for a public release of ANY sort was NOT granted, and in fact I explicity told this person they were NOT allowed to do so. That is all I will say for now.

[For those still following, yes I am still working on it, in the middle of a playtest as we speak.]

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Mistake not for here.

If you think that was your only mistake and not the egregious theft of intellectual property, then man you are daft.
You didn't even have the common courtesy to acknowledge or give credit to Elessar for the use of his 20k map and contents therein when posting your so-called '1939' mod.

[rmelvin]

Release in this thread was a mistake; I did give credit to the map author. But one need to download the game first to see the credits.
Also, I did not try to copy your work. Your future game and my game are two different games and play differently.
Maybe if you did communicate with me, I would have held up. Many of project are started here and go nowhere.
Look at the long list of game name maybe versus one or two then no more.
This is an open form. There is no sole propriety in this form.
I want to reiterate I tried to communicate with you, but all attempts were block by you. Red X means you block he.
I save the screen and ask the Development team about the red "X".

[Lothos]

Release in this thread was a mistake; I did give credit to the map author. But one need to download the game first to see the credits.
Also, I did not try to copy your work. Your future game and my game are two different games and play differently.
Maybe if you did communicate with me, I would have held up. Many of project are started here and go nowhere.
Look at the long list of game name maybe versus one or two then no more.
This is an open form. There is no sole propriety in this form.
I want to reiterate I tried to communicate with you, but all attempts were block by you. Red X means you block he.
I save the screen and ask the Development team about the red "X".

I assume you took his map and then changed other things in the mod, this is not acceptable unless he authorizes it. I would never let anyone take the TRP map and use it for their own mod to be released as I spent tons of time on it and its really not fair.

[pz501]

I posted this on the now locked "Sept39" thread:

I'm a long-time lurker who very rarely posts these days on any forum or sub-forum, but this really caught my eye.

I think Elessar2 has every right to be upset. However, I'd advise everyone to try and tone it down a little. I see no need for statements like "You will thus delete your original post in this thread, including the link, post-haste. I will brook no more rationalizations, excuses, or delays." to be made. This is tantamount to issuing orders to someone, that last time I checked nobody here except the moderators or forum owners have the authority to do.

Making demands like that can only prolong this argument to no one's satisfaction. People will tend to dig in their heels when someone addresses them this way. I understand the issue concerning intellectual property, having designed a very large Gettysburg scenario for the Wargame Design Studios "Campaign Gettysburg" title, and I can also appreciate the hours of research, testing, and revising involved. My attitude has always been that while I may have designed something it was not for any profit of any type, but for people's enjoyment and use to play or modify as they see fit. Elessar2 says his is still under construction. Fair enough, and people should indeed hold off independently tinkering or using the map for their own designs until his design is finalized.

I also think the posting advertising the offending scenario should be removed. However no one but the moderator can really do anything about that.

I'm looking forward to seeing the real scenario that Elessar is working on. I hope it's a huge success. After all this time and effort, he deserves that much to say the least.

It should be obvious whose "side" I'm on, but I do think the longer this keeps up with tit for tat exchanges the more probability exists that a moderator will lock this thread too. Better I think just to let it go. We know who is in the right here, and who the real creator of the 20km map is. When the final product from Elessar2 gets released I honestly believe that "Sept 39" will be forgotten as it should be.

[BillRunacre]

Indeed, enough has been said now, so let's see this thread return to discussing Elessar's great project.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Bump for Tanaka

[inbello]

Wow that Map looks just amazing, so realistic. I'm really looking forward to playing on it one day.
Say Elessar did you use the maximum size allowed in the Editor (512 x 256)? Or did you find a way around that restriction and made the Map even bigger?

I'm currently playing the Pacific MEGA Mod. It is a lot of fun, Thank you (and of course Nginear) for that great Map and Mod).

If you ever need help with german names/words etc. please feel free to reach out to me. (I'm german) Thought I would guess you have other things on your mind right now.

Cheers Bel

[Elessar2]

The workaround map size kludge is possible (PM me if you really want to know how), but the devs indicated doing so may break things in the game engine.

At my current pace (no gamebreakers so far), expect the test group to finally be called by Labor Day. I was on a trip for the 1st third of August, note.

I may actually need translators for certain text files (SC has 4 language text files for scripts, English of course, then French, German, and Spanish).

[fc2slater]

Hows everything going? the map looks amazing. cant wait.

[Elessar2]

It's going. As usual real-world stuff has taken precedence for the moment, including the usual beatific September weather.

In the latter half of 1941 right now, Barbarossa is a bit behind the historical pace, and this is mainly due to how supply is modeled by the game engine, tl;dr. Good news is that I have discovered no major overhauls or obvious balance patches to do at this point like I have the last two playtests, so it will just be a bunch of small stuff. I plan to stop in fall of '42 as soon as I can see how Torch works out and if I can pull off a Uranus somewhere for the Russians, tho I may go far enough for a '43 Overlord. At that point once I do all the fixes I'll go over all remaining 43-45 scripts for any errors and finally call in the testing gang.

I do have one big change planned tho, and that is to reduce Settlements (Villages) from 8 hit points to 6, which is most germane to the Russian Front natch, where Settlements will now have a max base supply level of 4, and a distribution level of 5 to any forward HQs. However I'll keep Cities/Major Cities/Capitals with 10 and 12 hit points, so that their base is 6 & 7. This will make it harder for the Axis to push into the more spartan areas of Russia as well as the Middle East, which is historical. I'll just have to ensure that there are enough Towns to go around (5 & 8-including in North Africa and a few other critical regions), because I want to avoid the huge supply voids in the vanilla map. My only worry is the inability at the moment to designate HQ links in the game engine, as in the durned code may link to the "wrong" HQ at a critical moment. Players will simply have to count out the max 7 hexes and carefully ensure the trailing HQ has only one possible lead HQ to link to. Good news is that Cities can have up to 7 feeder HQs in or adjacent to them; in vanilla this usually isn't something seen very often because of the unit density there but it will be here.

[fc2slater]

hows the game going? you get past 44' yet?

[Elessar2]

Still in '42, June:







I've focused almost all time and effort on the Russian Front while leaving everything else in stasis, and to check how it works with a high unit density have had a truce there for 3 months now (land unit counts are around 300 for both sides-and my system has had zero issues dealing with that many units). This summer campaign will tell me a lot. I'll try to simulate the historical flow in the Med however come the fall.

[inbello]

I really like those distinced Hungarian and Italian army groups on the eastern front.
Can't wait to play the mod myself

[Elessar2]

Mid August 1942:



More or less historical, tho Moscow is about to fall and Lenigrad won't be far behind (a mass of forts in front of Stalingrad has dissuaded the Axis from taking it, for now). I just got Ground Warfare 1 for the Russians tho which means double attacks for all Armored units, so maybe the tide can be stemmed. I am hampered by not being able to simulate Axis oil issues so they can attack all along the front this year, but have some alternate ideas to limit their supply...

[TofkY]

Hey, how is the campaign in Russia going? Has Moscow fallen yet?
Also I'd like to ask whether it's still possible to apply for playtesting and if you could imagine to ever do WW1 Version with your gorgeous Map. Keep up the great work, can't wait to try this bad boy haha

[Elessar2]

After ending the playtest in fall of '42, having been satisfied with the broader issues (i.e. I foresee no radical rebalancings necessary in terms of force pools or income, and have found no game-breaking issues requiring lengthy revisions like I have in past tests), I am now on the latest set of tweaks, some of which are easy and quick, others are easy but time-consuming (such as partisans my current project).

I'll be glad to add you to the playtester list, TofkY. I no longer will post estimates (because Murphy's Law is a VERY harsh mistress when it comes to mega-projects like this), but just hang in there, it shouldn't be too much longer before I can commence testing.