Civilian aircraft in CAP zones

[Shrimpz432]

I'm wondering if there's anyway to keep airliners out of my CAP zones I just had an incident where a runaway sidewinder hit an airliner after the hostile aircraft had been destroyed.

[Mark352]

On the side with the civilian airliners build no-navigation zones that align with the CAP zones. Hope that works.

Cheers

[blu3s]

This should be done by the designer of the scenario. As mentioned by Mark352, with a no-nav zone for the civilian side should be enough

[thewood1]

This should be done by the designer of the scenario. As mentioned by Mark352, with a no-nav zone for the civilian side should be enough

The issue with this approach is if you are building CAP zones on the fly and playing in game mode, you don't have a tool warn off civilian units. What could be a potential solution is that you can build a no nav zone that warns certain sides.

[blu3s]

That's partially true,

IMO you don't need a NonNav for each patrol but a NonNav for the area of interest, this can be done through a bit of lua and a special action (I made this for one of my scenarios, the player had the ability to issue a Non-Nav zone for the Civilian side) so player won't need editor mode enable.

[thewood1]

But as a player, you depend on the scenario designer to have the forethought to do that. If you are playing a scenario where you build your own patrol zones, there is no way to build a no nav zone for on the fly patrols. Depending on the scenario designer to think of every possible patrol configuration is a unfair to designers.

I can do almost anything with lua. But I would imagine the devs want to make sure scenario design for some basic functions isn't limited to only those that embed lua.

[Mark352]

I'm wondering if there's anyway to keep airliners out of my CAP zones I just had an incident where a runaway sidewinder hit an airliner after the hostile aircraft had been destroyed.

What scenario are you playing?

This should be done by the designer of the scenario. As mentioned by Mark352, with a no-nav zone for the civilian side should be enough

The issue with this approach is if you are building CAP zones on the fly and playing in game mode, you don't have a tool warn off civilian units. What could be a potential solution is that you can build a no nav zone that warns certain sides.

I was thinking about being in editor mode rather than game mode.

[blu3s]

But as a player, you depend on the scenario designer to have the forethought to do that. If you are playing a scenario where you build your own patrol zones, there is no way to build a no nav zone for on the fly patrols. Depending on the scenario designer to think of every possible patrol configuration is a unfair to designers.

I can do almost anything with lua. But I would imagine the devs want to make sure scenario design for some basic functions isn't limited to only those that embed lua.

That's why I answer that is a scenario design issue and there's no in game setting for that, since it will highly depend on the scenario.

In a more basic format, there are also ways to make civilian aircrafts stops flying without lua involved, of course if you need a more fine grain functionality, everything goes through lua. You can even create on the fly non nav zones for user patrol zones with the correct triggers and setup. And I'm not saying that all designers should account for that, keep it simple and it will work better.

[Shrimpz432]

The scenario is operation desert fox

[thewood1]

But as a player, you depend on the scenario designer to have the forethought to do that. If you are playing a scenario where you build your own patrol zones, there is no way to build a no nav zone for on the fly patrols. Depending on the scenario designer to think of every possible patrol configuration is a unfair to designers.

I can do almost anything with lua. But I would imagine the devs want to make sure scenario design for some basic functions isn't limited to only those that embed lua.

That's why I answer that is a scenario design issue and there's no in game setting for that, since it will highly depend on the scenario.

In a more basic format, there are also ways to make civilian aircrafts stops flying without lua involved, of course if you need a more fine grain functionality, everything goes through lua. You can even create on the fly non nav zones for user patrol zones with the correct triggers and setup. And I'm not saying that all designers should account for that, keep it simple and it will work better.

Again, I understand what you are saying. But as a player this is one of those changes that might alleviate the burden of both players and designers. If its too much of development burden, then fine. But I think its worth having someone look at it.

[astreoud]

By the way this is also the real life usually NOTAM are issue and civilian aircraft should take this NOTAM into account. But some mistake could happen and should be taken into account by fighter in CAP. It could also a be a voluntary action from the scenario designer to test players

[Kushan04]

By the way this is also the real life usually NOTAM are issue and civilian aircraft should take this NOTAM into account. But some mistake could happen and should be taken into account by fighter in CAP. It could also a be a voluntary action from the scenario designer to test players

This is why I don't include civilian aircraft or shipping in most of my scenarios. Unless it's some bolt out of the blue, NOTAMS and the maritime equivalent would be given, and should keep most civilians out of an operations area.

Most designers include random aircraft and shipping to provide background, not necessarily because it would be accurate, and to force the player to watch where they shoot. There seems to be a common misconception that one must include everything in a scenario, without regards for what would actually be done.

[thewood1]

I always look a little askance at scenarios where designers include all kinds of civilian shipping and aircraft, yet not a single warning zone around warships and task forces. Its like the designer wants to include every possible thing they can think of yet not do a lot of the work to make life easier (and slightly more realistic) for the player.

To me, the only time civilian units should be included is if you are actively trying to force a decision on the player by obfuscating possible enemy ships that are either spying or ambushing. But its more than just plopping units down. Otherwise, you're just chewing up CPU cycles.

[Kushan04]

I always look a little askance at scenarios where designers include all kinds of civilian shipping and aircraft, yet not a single warning zone around warships and task forces. Its like the designer wants to include every possible thing they can think of yet not do a lot of the work to make life easier (and slightly more realistic) for the player.

To me, the only time civilian units should be included is if you are actively trying to force a decision on the player by obfuscating possible enemy ships that are either spying or ambushing. But its more than just plopping units down. Otherwise, you're just chewing up CPU cycles.

Unless you're playing a 1950s scenario with very few sensors or the scenario designer spread warships around as singles (which very few do) - you'd have to be blind to not be able to tell a naval group from civilian shipping.

Ships close together, going at the same course and speed. What's more likely to be? Probably warships or at least hostile if you're going after a merchant convoy.

I agree, civilian shipping is usually just eating up CPU cycles that could be better used.

[thewood1]

While true in general, what I do play with now and then is things like spy trawlers. I make the player/AI decide if its worth engaging in hostilities by eliminating a targeting platform.

[BDukes]

I always look a little askance at scenarios where designers include all kinds of civilian shipping and aircraft, yet not a single warning zone around warships and task forces. Its like the designer wants to include every possible thing they can think of yet not do a lot of the work to make life easier (and slightly more realistic) for the player.

To me, the only time civilian units should be included is if you are actively trying to force a decision on the player by obfuscating possible enemy ships that are either spying or ambushing. But its more than just plopping units down. Otherwise, you're just chewing up CPU cycles.

Unless you're playing a 1950s scenario with very few sensors or the scenario designer spread warships around as singles (which very few do) - you'd have to be blind to not be able to tell a naval group from civilian shipping.

Ships close together, going at the same course and speed. What's more likely to be? Probably warships or at least hostile if you're going after a merchant convoy.

I agree, civilian shipping is usually just eating up CPU cycles that could be better used.

Eh. Not a huge deal. You build and play enough, you tend to get a sense of what is too slow and why. Retune every once in a while to engine improvements or non-improvements, and that's it.

Civ targets are good for player immersion and maybe decoying the occasional active seeker. There is likely some Lua that can be written to not shoot into traffic or whatever. I tend to write things as I go along to meet my needs and expectations with the game. I like that we can just handle/shape things on our own now.

M