Implementation of PTRDs into TOEs

[Wiedrock]

Since it is rather early in game that PTRDs are entering TOEs, sometimes already in 06/1941, others then 07-09/1941, I tried figuring out what this is based on. I looked (and still looking) for Infos on production in hope to find something actually stating to implement them on a large/official scale/way into TOEs before 12/1941 (as amendment or so).
But I couldn't find anything specific stating to "introduce PTRD into TOE of 'Formation type X' on date Y in amount Z" or so... In TOEs releasd in 12/1941, 01/1942 the PTRD automatically pops up, so no reason I could think of adding them earlier (unless there is a official order I did not find yet).

to me (cyrillic seach help ^^):
противота 14,5

Infos so far:

29.August 1941
Decree of the USSR GKO No. 597 SS on the anti -tank rifle Simonov, with the application of the note by Yakovlev N. D., Novikova I. I.V.V.

Basically the re-introduction of the AT-Rifle idea of this caliber and intend to restart production.

October 28, 1941
Order 848
Production planning for November
PTRS 300pieces
PTRD 1200

So this offical planning for the production of November 1941 still only planned to produce a total of 1500 AT-Rifles!!!


Production increases in early November for PTRD and PTRS for months November+December.

• November 4, 1941, 866 Resolution. On an increase in the production of 14.5 mm anti -tank rifle Degtyarev.
• November 9, 1941, 879 Resolution. On an increase in production of 14.5 mm anti -tank rifle Simonov.

Conclusion as of now (until further info comes up):
AT-Rifles should only be introduced into TOEs from 12/1941 onwards (in game they are set to only start production in 12/1941 anyways).

If you have further Infos, let me know. Maybe there is an order I simply can't find using the search terms I use.

[StratmanWITX]

If you have further Infos, let me know. Maybe there is an order I simply can't find using the search terms I use.

PTRD
On September 22, 1941, serial production of the 14.5-mm Degtyarev anti-tank rifle (PTRD) began at the Kovrov Arms Plant. (ru.wikipedia.org*ru.ruwiki.ru)
By October, the first pilot batch of 50 rifles was assembled. At the end of November 1941, the Izhevsk Machine-Building Plant also began producing PTRDs. (ru.wikipedia.org*vk.com)
PTRD production continued until January 1945, with a total of over 700,000 rifles produced.

PTRD Production

PTRD Production

PTRD Production.jpg (689.49 KiB) Viewed 350 times

PTRD Production 1941

PTRD Production 1941.jpg (425.26 KiB) Viewed 350 times

** The difference of 11 units is explained by the fact that these PTRDs were released as crushers (for ballistic research)
(https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/ПТРД)

[StratmanWITX]

PTRS
In November 1941, production of the 14.5-mm Simonov anti-tank self-loading rifle (PTRS) began. (apocalypse.fandom.comru.ruwiki.ru)
It was planned to organize production at the Tula Arms Plant No. 66, but due to the threat of Tula being captured by German troops, part of the production was evacuated to Saratov to Plant No. 614, where they began producing the PTRS. (vk.com)
On November 6, 1941, Izhevsk Plant No. 74 was connected to production. (vk.com)
The PTRS was produced from 1941 to 1944, with 178,562 rifles manufactured in total.

PTRS Production

PTRS Production.jpg (627 KiB) Viewed 346 times

In total, only 77 guns were produced in 1941. Later, the production of PTRS was increased. On July 1, 1942, the production of PTRS from Plant No. 74 was transferred to the newly formed Plant No. 622. At Plant No. 614, production was completed in June 1944, at Plant No. 622 - in December.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/ПТРС

[Wiedrock]

PTRD
On September 22, 1941, serial production of the 14.5-mm Degtyarev anti-tank rifle (PTRD) began at the Kovrov Arms Plant. (ru.wikipedia.org*ru.ruwiki.ru)
By October, the first pilot batch of 50 rifles was assembled. At the end of November 1941, the Izhevsk Machine-Building Plant also began producing PTRDs. (ru.wikipedia.org*vk.com)
PTRD production continued until January 1945, with a total of over 700,000 rifles produced.

Thanks, seeing this I remembered we looked into production a while ago when it was about PTRD Unit's issues in TBs...

Where do you get the 700k from?

Afaik, first Combat use/trials was sometime in November.

[StratmanWITX]

Where do you get the 700k from?

Afaik, first Combat use/trials was sometime in November.

700k comes from here -
https://ar.culture.ru/ru/subject/60360e ... 3794b49434

but seems like it`s bullshit
You have to trust the tables (see above)

The first pre-production model of the PTRD was manufactured and sent for testing in mid-August 1941. The gun turned out to be cheap and very technologically advanced in production, and could be almost entirely manufactured on lathes, so mass production of the PTRD was mastered earlier than serial production of the PTRS.
Serial production of the first PTRDs began on September 22, 1941 at the Kovrov Arms Plant

The earliest known mention of the use of PTRD in archival documents is the operational report of the headquarters of the 32nd Rifle Division from November 4, 1941:
"At 15:30, the 1310th Rifle Regiment knocked out one enemy tank with an anti-tank rifle."
(Memory of the people::Authentic documents about the Second World War. pamyat-naroda.ru.)

On November 16, 1941, the Chief of Artillery of the Western Front, General I. P. Kamera, reported that in the area of Petelino and Shiryaevo, two enemy tanks were knocked out by fire from anti-tank rifles, and in the battle for Lugovaya station, four more.
(Ustinov, Dmitry Fedorovich. In the Name of Victory: Notes of the People's Commissar of Armaments. - M .: Voenizdat, 1988. - Pp. 170-173. - 318 p. - (Military memoirs). - ISBN 5-203-00568-0)

[Wiedrock]

700k comes from here -
https://ar.culture.ru/ru/subject/60360e ... 3794b49434

but seems like it`s bullshit
You have to trust the tables (see above)

Probably, I am asking since there certainly is the chance for "small arms" numbers to be off by magnitudes as DrHiramTemple found out for the DShK recently (Wikipedia was simply lying/confusing things).

The earliest known mention of the use of PTRD in archival documents is the operational report of the headquarters of the 32nd Rifle Division from November 4, 1941:
"At 15:30, the 1310th Rifle Regiment knocked out one enemy tank with an anti-tank rifle."
(Memory of the people::Authentic documents about the Second World War. pamyat-naroda.ru.)

On November 16, 1941, the Chief of Artillery of the Western Front, General I. P. Kamera, reported that in the area of Petelino and Shiryaevo, two enemy tanks were knocked out by fire from anti-tank rifles, and in the battle for Lugovaya station, four more.
(Ustinov, Dmitry Fedorovich. In the Name of Victory: Notes of the People's Commissar of Armaments. - M .: Voenizdat, 1988. - Pp. 170-173. - 318 p. - (Military memoirs). - ISBN 5-203-00568-0)

This is good info.