Hirohito's Honor

[PaxMondo]

I consider those very light mortars to be more like a grenade launcher, with a warhead just a little bit larger than the M79/M240 used by the United States of America.

And in fact that is how they are now designated. But, at the time, in fact through MOST of the war, the GI's thought that they were "knee mortars", when in fact they were grenade launchers. From the reading it appears the reason for this is that the IJ troops were well trained with the device and this made it very effective. Accuracy due to training overcame the smallish warhead, even a small grenade if accurately used is a very deadly device.

US troops at the time relied more upon direct fire (machine guns, etc) due to their history in prior conflicts. The vaunted M2, with its well deserved reputation is the exemplar here.

The IJ forces had very limited direct fire support (their "heavy" machine gun was a water cooled, cannister fed, 7.7mm ). 7.7mm is HEAVY? They had some platoon level 7.7mm cannister fed light machine guns, but these had a strong reputation of overheating and jamming. They were also still using bolt action rifles, granted accurate and reliable, but the ROF was quite low compared the Garand. Worse, they were not even a good match against the Springfield (IIRC it was still in use at Guadacanal with the Marines). The 7.7x58mm Arisaka comes off a 2nd best compared to the .30-06 Springfield cartridge at 7.62x63mm, and this isn't even taking into account the gun powder quality issues that IJ endured throughout the 30-40's due material challenges.

Given all of this, the IJ forces learned how use their Type 89 grenade discharger very effectively. And as opposed to the US M79/M240, every squad had a Type 89 and used it effectively. I say "as opposed to" because when you read the 1st person records of Guadacanal, you don't read about M79 v Type 89 battles. You do read the US troops being surprised by and digging in against the Type 89 barrage and then calling in either arty or air support. So apparently at that time the US grenade launchers were not standard issue or they had run out of ammo. RJ, you are an expert in this area, so if you say they had M79's, then they must have run out of ammo. The list of Guadacanal rear echelon FUBARS in terms of supply is a VERY, VERY long list. What the guys there had to endure because of shipping errors .... ouch.

[PaxMondo]

10Dec41 Colonel Kotani Etsuo, North Vice Director

Hong Kong: recon: Troops:14280 Guns: 10433 AFV: 74
Original attack force, still closing in on HK.

Foochow: bail everything east of Amoy. Try to hold Amoy, ChaoChow, and Swatow.

7th ID finishing embarkation
Additional units enroute to Canton to help support the HK operations. 22nd Air Defense and 12 Independent AA Gun Co, along with the 6th and 11th JNAF Units.
33rd, 4th, 52nd, 53rd, and 54th ID’s are in Hiroshima now awaiting ships to embark for Canton.
Air Units from Canton are working to suppress HK air fields (current damage = 93) and recon. Principle units are:

• Bombers: 49th, 75th, 90th,44th sentai aided by the 82nd, 71st, and 73rd chutai
  Fighters: 47th IF chutai (flying developmental Ki-44’s) and 10th IF chutai with Ki-27b’s.
  Recon: 81st sentai with Ki-15II’s
  Air units from Amoy: 16th sentai Ki-30
  Air units from Takao: 60th, 8th, 12th, 14th sentai (mix of Ki-21-IIa and Ki-48-Ib)

HIE order to use MAN/MON troops as garrisons is being implemented, but like everything else in the Kwangtung Army, they are currently in the wrong place.

Tsingtsing -> Sian
HIE has made this an imperative due to the rich resources in the Sian area needed for the economy and war effort.
1st Army is the principal elements with the 37th and 41st ID regrouping now (they had about 15% combat ineffectives to start). 36th ID just arrived and is deploying from its trains now.

Kaoping -> Chegchow -> Changsha - > Chungking
This is the major axis of attack against imperialist china. It has 2 objectives:
- Open up the LOS with west asia
- Knock China out of the war by taking Chunking and Chengtu
Assets are slowly arriving in Kaoping. Issues are two-fold:
- Kwangtung units were stationed forward on the front with SOV and are slow to move.
- China Expeditionary Army units are all bogged down with garrison commitments. It is taking inordinate amounts of time attempting to find replacements and move everything around. Frustrating this work are the aggressive actions by the CHI forces.
- Paotow -> Taiyuan CHI forces in this area have blocked several key RR lines.
- Ichang -> strong forces have encircled the base forcing evacuation to Hankow
- Sinyang -> Chengchow a number of CHI forces currently occupy the RR line between these bases.
- Hankow – Several bombing raids today. The Ki-27b’s assigned to CAP were ineffective. The DB-3M and A-29A bombers flew above the Ki-27b’s and bombed with impunity. However, no damage to the AF was sustained.

[RangerJoe]

I consider those very light mortars to be more like a grenade launcher, with a warhead just a little bit larger than the M79/M240 used by the United States of America.

And in fact that is how they are now designated. But, at the time, in fact through MOST of the war, the GI's thought that they were "knee mortars", when in fact they were grenade launchers. From the reading it appears the reason for this is that the IJ troops were well trained with the device and this made it very effective. Accuracy due to training overcame the smallish warhead, even a small grenade if accurately used is a very deadly device.

US troops at the time relied more upon direct fire (machine guns, etc) due to their history in prior conflicts. The vaunted M2, with its well deserved reputation is the exemplar here.

The IJ forces had very limited direct fire support (their "heavy" machine gun was a water cooled, cannister fed, 7.7mm ). 7.7mm is HEAVY? They had some platoon level 7.7mm cannister fed light machine guns, but these had a strong reputation of overheating and jamming. They were also still using bolt action rifles, granted accurate and reliable, but the ROF was quite low compared the Garand. Worse, they were not even a good match against the Springfield (IIRC it was still in use at Guadacanal with the Marines). The 7.7x58mm Arisaka comes off a 2nd best compared to the .30-06 Springfield cartridge at 7.62x63mm, and this isn't even taking into account the gun powder quality issues that IJ endured throughout the 30-40's due material challenges.

Given all of this, the IJ forces learned how use their Type 89 grenade discharger very effectively. And as opposed to the US M79/M240, every squad had a Type 89 and used it effectively. I say "as opposed to" because when you read the 1st person records of Guadacanal, you don't read about M79 v Type 89 battles. You do read the US troops being surprised by and digging in against the Type 89 barrage and then calling in either arty or air support. So apparently at that time the US grenade launchers were not standard issue or they had run out of ammo. RJ, you are an expert in this area, so if you say they had M79's, then they must have run out of ammo. The list of Guadacanal rear echelon FUBARS in terms of supply is a VERY, VERY long list. What they guys there had to endure because of shipping errors .... ouch.

The "heavy" 7.7mm machine gun was considered heavy because it was on a tripod and had a higher rate of fire. It was air cooled, not water cooled, and it had a 450 rpm rate of fire but had only 30 round clips. But all of the clip could be fired at one time since the gun did not overheat, barrel life was long and it did not need to be changed unlike the German MG34/42. It may also be referred to as a "Nambu" since a colonel with that name was associated with its design.
https://smallarmsreview.com/japanese-ty ... chine-gun/

type 92 M1932 7.7 HMG.jpg (129.67 KiB) Viewed 441 times

The M79 was the "bloop" gun used in Vietnam, firing a 40 mm grenade or flechette/buckshot rounds for the up close and personal use. The M203 (my error, the M240 is a machine gun which was used on the M60 and M1 tanks among other places) is the over and under on the M16 family, it replaced the forearm grip. I only mentioned these because some people may be more familiar with those weapons. Think of putting a "Willy Pete" (aka, White Phosphorus) grenade through a window up to 150 meters away firing directly or firing indirectly at 450 meters. I mean, if cola beverages are hard on the teeth due to phosphoric acid, just think of just what that would to to the lungs as it burns through all of the equipment in the room. Only H20 in some solution will put it out . . .
"Say hello to my little friend!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m_12SGXNKw

As far as Guadalcanal supply errors, blame the Navy although Frank Fletcher really shouldn't be blamed for being cautious with the only strike arm available in the Pacific theater. The 164th Infantry Regiment (North Dakota National Guard) had the M1 rifle on Guadalcanal, their rifles from the wounded were somehow never recovered on the battlefield yet somehow, the US Marines slowly replaced their Springfields with Garands. The 164th was considered by the US Marines to be just as good as they were and in fact received a Navy Presidential Unit Citation. Here was one of them, my understanding is that his medals are/were at the University of North Dakota which had sports teams called the Fighting Sioux until some people objected . . .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_W._Keeble

https://www.army.mil/medalofhonor/keeble/

Sherman tanks in France would take out Tigers by shooting Willy Pete rounds at them and the German crew (for some strange reason) would tend to flee.

[PaxMondo]

10 Dec 41 - SRA Updates - Seizo Arisue

Philippines
Luzon
Lucena was taken by Para forces today to expand the beachhead.
Legaspi has been invested today and should be taken tomorrow.

Naga port has been expanded, now working to expand AF.
All initial forces have disembarked. Getting them moving towards Manila now.

Mindanao
Next objective is Cagayan. This will be accomplished by a pincer movement from all current bases.
2nd objective is Zamboanga which will complete Mindanao.
Davao is being built up as a staging base for attacks south and southeast.

Malay
With Singora and Kota Bharu secure, onto next stage.
Kota Bharu AF needs to be built up some to support suppression attacks on Singapore and Palembang.
2 prong attack down both east and west coasts.
Kota Bharu to Kuala Lumpur
Singora to Kuala Lumpur
Then direct to Singapore.

Diversion of assets to Hong Kong means at this time we only have:
18th ID at Kota Bharu
5th ID, 41st Rgmt at Singora.
Imperial Guard ID, elements of 55th ID, 14th Tank Rgmt, 15th Army HQ all in transit to Singora.
It is thought this is enough to get us to Kuala Lumpur, our 2nd goal, but we will need additional forces to complete the 3rd goal of Singapore.

[PaxMondo]

10Dec41 Tatsumi Eiichi: Intel Chief

Tatsumi reviews some of the air intel that he has received.

Code: Select all

8Dec41
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Naga at 81,81
 
Weather in hex: Severe storms
 
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      A6M2 Zero x 20
      Ki-27b Nate x 16
 
Allied aircraft
      A-24 Banshee x 21
      P-40B Warhawk x 10
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
 
Allied aircraft losses
      A-24 Banshee: 6 destroyed, 1 damaged
      P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed
 
Japanese Ships
      xAKL Saiko Maru #2
      xAK Sanko Maru, Bomb hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage
      xAK Tatumiya Maru, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires
      xAKL Tonegawa Maru #2
      APD Hagimomi
 
Aircraft Attacking:
       3 x A-24 Banshee releasing from 2000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       2 x A-24 Banshee releasing from 4000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       5 x A-24 Banshee releasing from 3000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
 
CAP engaged:
Tainan Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (5 airborne, 15 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      5 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 15000.
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
      11 planes vectored on to bombers
50th Sentai with Ki-27b Nate (4 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      4 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 17000.
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
      4 planes vectored on to bombers 

The good news is that the losses of the first few days have tapered off.

Code: Select all

9Dev41
Morning Air attack on Hankow , at 85,50 
 
Weather in hex: Light rain
 
Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      Ki-27b Nate x 30
 
Allied aircraft
      A-29A Hudson x 6
 
No Japanese losses
 
Allied aircraft losses
      A-29A Hudson: 1 destroyed
 
CAP engaged:
54th Sentai with Ki-27b Nate (5 airborne, 10 on standby, 15 scrambling)
      5 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
 
 
 
---------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Hankow , at 85,50 
 
Weather in hex: Light rain
 
Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      Ki-27b Nate x 30
 
Allied aircraft
      DB-3M x 6
 
No Japanese losses
 
No Allied losses
 
CAP engaged:
54th Sentai with Ki-27b Nate (8 airborne, 6 on standby, 11 scrambling)

10Dec41
Afternoon Air attack on Hankow , at 85,50 
 
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
 
Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      Ki-27b Nate x 30
 
Allied aircraft
      A-29A Hudson x 3
 
No Japanese losses
 
No Allied losses
 
CAP engaged:
54th Sentai with Ki-27b Nate (5 airborne, 10 on standby, 15 scrambling)
      5 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
 
 
 
---------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on Hankow , at 85,50 
 
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
 
Raid spotted at 7 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      Ki-27b Nate x 30
 
Allied aircraft
      DB-3M x 2
 
No Japanese losses
 
No Allied losses
 
CAP engaged:
54th Sentai with Ki-27b Nate (6 airborne, 9 on standby, 15 scrambling)
      6 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 19000.
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes 

The bad news is the ineffectiveness of the Ki-27 fighters, far and away their most prevalent fighter. 2 sentai of Ki-43, 2.5 sentai of A6M2. All the rest Ki-27 (ok a couple of chutai of A5M, but those also useless, at least the Navy knew they were.) Everything rested on the Ki-27 until the A6M2 can be ramped up. But we’re talking 100’s of fighters needed, and we started with production capacity of only 2/day. Those idiots!!!

[PaxMondo]

December 10 Hiroshima late: Captain Onoda, Naval Vice Director

Captain Onoda has finally gotten some news. Wake has been taken basically on schedule. But more importantly is that Shokaku passed by late in the day and was able to get word that has since been passed on from Wake.
Shokaku is badly damaged, no flight ops, but fires are out. 38/20/9/0. She is limping back to Hiroshima and requesting main RSY space upon arrival. Estimate arrival to be at least one week, will update arrival from Chichi-jima.
The battle report was transmitted:

Code: Select all

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Taongi at 147,109
 
Weather in hex: Clear sky
 
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      A6M2 Zero x 12
 
Allied aircraft
      F4F-4 Wildcat x 6
      SBD-3 Dauntless x 30
 
No Japanese losses
 
Allied aircraft losses
      F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
      SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 destroyed, 9 damaged
      SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 destroyed by flak
 
Japanese Ships
      BC Kirishima
      CV Kaga
      CV Zuikaku
      CV Soryu
      CV Shokaku
 
Aircraft Attacking:
       2 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       6 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
 
CAP engaged:
Akagi-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      (2 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
      0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
Kaga-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      2 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
      Raid is overhead
Soryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes
      2 planes vectored on to bombers
Hiryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      2 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
      Raid is overhead
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      2 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
      Raid is overhead
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      2 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
      Raid is overhead
 
 
 
---------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Taongi at 147,109
 
Weather in hex: Clear sky
 
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      A6M2 Zero x 8
 
Allied aircraft
      F4F-4 Wildcat x 6
      SBD-3 Dauntless x 47
      SBD-5 Dauntless x 15
 
No Japanese losses
 
Allied aircraft losses
      F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
      SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 13 damaged
      SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 destroyed by flak
      SBD-5 Dauntless: 1 damaged
 
Japanese Ships
      CV Kaga, Bomb hits 2,  on fire
      CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 5,  on fire
      CV Soryu, Bomb hits 1,  on fire
      CV Zuikaku
      CL Abukuma
 
Aircraft Attacking:
       7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       7 x SBD-5 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
      11 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       8 x SBD-5 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
 
CAP engaged:
Akagi-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      1 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
      Raid is overhead
      1 planes vectored on to bombers
Kaga-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 16000.
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
      2 planes vectored on to bombers
Soryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes
Hiryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      1 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
      Raid is overhead
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters to 18000.
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
 
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Shokaku

The battle continued at least 2 days, because they also transmitted a 2nd attack from 8Dec41:

Code: Select all

Morning Air attack on TF, near Johnston Island at 157,109
 
Weather in hex: Clear sky
 
Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      A6M2 Zero x 5
 
Allied aircraft
      F4F-4 Wildcat x 8
      SBD-3 Dauntless x 13
      SBD-5 Dauntless x 14
      TBD-1 Devastator x 12
 
No Japanese losses
 
Allied aircraft losses
      SBD-3 Dauntless: 6 damaged
      SBD-5 Dauntless: 2 damaged
      SBD-5 Dauntless: 1 destroyed by flak
      TBD-1 Devastator: 1 damaged
      TBD-1 Devastator: 1 destroyed by flak
 
Japanese Ships
      CV Hiryu, Bomb hits 1
      CV Zuikaku
      CV Akagi, Bomb hits 2,  on fire
      BC Hiei
 
Aircraft Attacking:
       6 x SBD-5 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
      11 x TBD-1 Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
               Naval Attack:  1 x 22.4in Mk 13 Torp.
       2 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       8 x SBD-5 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
       4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
               Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb
 
CAP engaged:
Akagi-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
Hiryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      2 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
      Raid is overhead
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      1 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
      Raid is overhead
 
 
 
---------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Johnston Island at 157,109
 
Weather in hex: Overcast
 
Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      A6M2 Zero x 3
 
Allied aircraft
      SBD-3 Dauntless x 3
 
No Japanese losses
 
Allied aircraft losses
      SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed
 
Japanese Ships
      CV Akagi,  on fire
 
Aircraft Attacking:
       1 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000' * 
               Naval Attack:  1 x 500 lb GP Bomb
 
CAP engaged:
Akagi-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
      Time for all group planes to reach interception is 11 minutes
Hiryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      1 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
      Raid is overhead
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
      1 plane(s) intercepting now.
      Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
      Raid is overhead 

Shokaku had not transmitted the damage to the other ships other than to say "all fires contained and able to resume at least minimal flight operations".

The original TF arrangements had been:
TF1: Kagi, Shokaku, Zuikaku, and Soryu
TF141: Akagi, Hiryu

Obviously after Day 1 where Kagi, Shokaku, and Soryu all took damage, the TF's reformed with the Zuikaku moving to TF141. Then 8Dec both Akagi and Hiryu got hit, with Zuikaku the only CV remaining not damaged. The fact it played out this way meant that whatever the actual losses, the US CV's had been hit, and hit hard otherwise there would not have been pursuit. Also, it meant, at least on the 8 Dec that there were still viable USN CV's to launch attacks. Also based upon the battle results, the IJN fighters had been seriously depleted. Only 5 were available to defend the first attack and then only 3 for the second.

Next assessment, was the battle damage itself. 5x500kg bomb hits. Shokaku had been both lucky and skilled to have survived. Hiryu and Soryu just lucky. He knew how thin skinned those two were.

Enemy aircraft Id. There must be some mistake. SBD-3 had just been released. The next version SBD-5 was purportedly still a year away. How had they been involved with the attack? Has to be faulty ID. Also, F4F's? should be mostly F2A's yet, where did all the F4F's come from? Hard to miss-ID those two as they are quite different aircraft. What is going on?

[RangerJoe]

There were F4Fs in the fleet at the time, but they were the F4F-3s and the F4F-3As. Your reports show the F4F-4 which had two more fifty caliber machine guns with no increase in the total ammo load. Those had the folding wings and were actually less maneuverable than the earlier models. Some pilots preferred to have only 4 machine guns and not 6 machine guns.

[PaxMondo]

There were F4Fs in the fleet at the time, but they were the F4F-3s and the F4F-3As. Your reports show the F4F-4 which had two more fifty caliber machine guns with no increase in the total ammo load. Those had the folding wings and were actually less maneuverable than the earlier models. Some pilots preferred to have only 4 machine guns and not 6 machine guns.

So, F4F-4's AND SBD-5's sighted in battle on Dec7/8. Must be false sightings....

ALL HAIL THE ANDY MAC!!!!

SBD3 v SBD5.jpg (84.42 KiB) Viewed 414 times

[PaxMondo]

I consider those very light mortars to be more like a grenade launcher, with a warhead just a little bit larger than the M79/M240 used by the United States of America.

And in fact that is how they are now designated. But, at the time, in fact through MOST of the war, the GI's thought that they were "knee mortars", when in fact they were grenade launchers. From the reading it appears the reason for this is that the IJ troops were well trained with the device and this made it very effective. Accuracy due to training overcame the smallish warhead, even a small grenade if accurately used is a very deadly device.

US troops at the time relied more upon direct fire (machine guns, etc) due to their history in prior conflicts. The vaunted M2, with its well deserved reputation is the exemplar here.

The IJ forces had very limited direct fire support (their "heavy" machine gun was a water cooled, cannister fed, 7.7mm ). 7.7mm is HEAVY? They had some platoon level 7.7mm cannister fed light machine guns, but these had a strong reputation of overheating and jamming. They were also still using bolt action rifles, granted accurate and reliable, but the ROF was quite low compared the Garand. Worse, they were not even a good match against the Springfield (IIRC it was still in use at Guadacanal with the Marines). The 7.7x58mm Arisaka comes off a 2nd best compared to the .30-06 Springfield cartridge at 7.62x63mm, and this isn't even taking into account the gun powder quality issues that IJ endured throughout the 30-40's due material challenges.

Given all of this, the IJ forces learned how use their Type 89 grenade discharger very effectively. And as opposed to the US M79/M240, every squad had a Type 89 and used it effectively. I say "as opposed to" because when you read the 1st person records of Guadacanal, you don't read about M79 v Type 89 battles. You do read the US troops being surprised by and digging in against the Type 89 barrage and then calling in either arty or air support. So apparently at that time the US grenade launchers were not standard issue or they had run out of ammo. RJ, you are an expert in this area, so if you say they had M79's, then they must have run out of ammo. The list of Guadacanal rear echelon FUBARS in terms of supply is a VERY, VERY long list. What they guys there had to endure because of shipping errors .... ouch.

The "heavy" 7.7mm machine guns was considered heavy because it was on a tripod and had a higher rate of fire. It was air cooled, not water cooled, and it had a 450 rpm rate of fire but had only 30 round clips. But all of the clip could be fired at one time since the gun did not overheat, barrel life was long and it did not need to be changed unlike the German MG34/42. It may also be referred to as a "Nambu" since a colonel with that name was associated with its design.
https://smallarmsreview.com/japanese-ty ... chine-gun/
type 92 M1932 7.7 HMG.jpg

The M79 was the "bloop" gun used in Vietnam, firing a 40 mm grenade or flechette/buckshot rounds for the up close and personal use. The M203 (my error, the M240 is a machine gun which was used on the M60 and M1 tanks among other places) is the over and under on the M16 family, it replaced the forearm grip. I only mentioned these because some people may be more familiar with those weapons. Think of putting a "Willy Pete" (aka, White Phosphorus) grenade through a window up to 150 meters away firing directly or firing indirectly at 450 meters. I mean, if cola beverages are hard on the teeth due to phosphoric acid, just think of just what that would to to the lungs as it burns through all of the equipment in the room. Only H20 in some solution will put it out . . .
"Say hello to my little friend!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m_12SGXNKw

As far as Guadalcanal supply errors, blame the Navy although Frank Fletcher really shouldn't be blamed for being cautious with the only strike arm available in the Pacific theater. The 164th Infantry Regiment (North Dakota National Guard) had the M1 rifle on Guadalcanal, their rifles from the wounded were somehow never recovered on the battlefield yet somehow, the US Marines slowly replaced their Springfields with Garands. The 164th was considered by the US Marines to be just as good as they were and in fact received a Navy Presidential Unit Citation. Here was one of them, my understanding is that his medal are/were at the University of North Dakota which had sports teams called the Fighting Sioux until some people objected . . .

...

You are correct, my bad memory tripping up. Worse, the IJ was still using the Model 38 (1905) 6.5-mm rifle, the 7.7mm rifle was in the process of being deployed, but not yet available in Dec 41. Again, my bad memory.

[BBfanboy]

Special deal! Every HMG and crate of ammo sold comes with a free katana and sheath! (Offer available only to Japanese Citizens).

type 92 M1932 7.7 HMG.jpg (129.67 KiB) Viewed 403 times

[PaxMondo]

Special deal! Every HMG and crate of ammo sold comes with a free katana and sheath! (Offer available only to Japanese Citizens).

[PaxMondo]

Still staggers me that someone would think that 7.7 mm is "heavy"...

[RangerJoe]

I think that it is more about the rate of fire, the rounds per minute, than the size of the bullet. The MG 34/42 could be light, medium, or heavy, depending upon how it was set up. The definition has also changed over time as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_machine_gun

[PaxMondo]

I think that it is more about the rate of fire, the rounds per minute, than the size of the bullet. The MG 34/42 could be light, medium, or heavy, depending upon how it was set up. The definition has also changed over time as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_machine_gun

I suppose you are right. But anyone who has seen the difference in destructive power between a SAW and an M2 would never confuse it. My guess would be it is bean counters who think one way and boots who think quite differently about this.

[RangerJoe]

I think that it is more about the rate of fire, the rounds per minute, than the size of the bullet. The MG 34/42 could be light, medium, or heavy, depending upon how it was set up. The definition has also changed over time as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_machine_gun

I suppose you are right. But anyone who has seen the difference in destructive power between a SAW and an M2 would never confuse it. My guess would be it is bean counters who think one way and boots who think quite differently about this.

Like I wrote, the definition has changed over time. Prior to World War II, there probably wasn't much need for a larger caliber AP machine gun in many situations. But due to the motorization, mechanization, and the proliferation of armoured vehicles during and after the war, then the "heavy" machine gun that could pierce light armour was definitely needed. The anti-tank rifle (ATR) before that time was useful but its usefulness became more limited as the armour became thicker on the tanks. The ATR that the Poles used did take out enemy armoured vehicles, in one battle there were 20 rounds for the two weapons which knocked out 10+ vehicles!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivgCD31iKyg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epeQwq- ... rt_radio=1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Wizna

https://allthatsinteresting.com/battle-of-wizna

[PaxMondo]

Like I wrote, the definition has changed over time. Prior to World War II, there probably wasn't much need for a larger caliber AP machine gun in many situations. But due to the motorization, mechanization, and the proliferation of armoured vehicles during and after the war, then the "heavy" machine gun that could pierce light armour was definitely needed. The anti-tank rifle (ATR) before that time was useful but its usefulness became more limited as the armour became thicker on the tanks. The ATR that the Poles used did take out enemy armoured vehicles, in one battle there were 20 rounds for the two weapons which knocked out 10+ vehicles!

OK, I think I see what you're saying now. I may very well be guilty of "hindsight-icitus", highly infectious, and known to attack overanxious JFB's.

[Chickenboy]

Soryu out of the fight for the foreseeable future?

Her Captain will need to wear a Kevlar cummerbund when he apologizes to the Golden Boy. Or man of light. Or whatever holier-than-thou moniker his honorable royal gracious highness is currently steeped in.

[PaxMondo]

Soryu out of the fight for the foreseeable future?

Her Captain will need to wear a Kevlar cummerbund when he apologizes to the Golden Boy. Or man of light. Or whatever holier-than-thou moniker his honorable royal gracious highness is currently steeped in.

Shokaku is definitely out. But given that she made a good fight, I think her captain safe as he did save his ship from 5x1000lb hits. The combat animation showed one was most likely a near miss, but the other 4 were solid hits. I can't remember one of my CV's eating 4 before and surviving.

We'll be getting the damage reports on the rest of the KB in another day or two.


********************************************************************************************************************************************


Spoilers below - skip for now if you want the read ....

{just some background info}


********************************************************************************************************************************************
When I was watching the combat live, i thought I had lost the entire KB again. Andy really set this one up perfectly, the ambush is so good. 50% of the time, the KB ends up as a fish farm. Then, about 15% of the time the IJ comes out on top, 35% of the time, not all of the KB is lost, but they have to scatter to the wind and run for cover. Soryu and Hiryu rarely survive (no surprise), and this time I thought for sure they were both gone. The killer is the SBD-5's with their 11 range. The allies usually get the first punch in, and with all the carriers they bring to the party they simply overwhelm the KB fighters. This time, the range was 5, so the KB got their punch in at the same time, pulling a lot of the fighter cover away from the USN attack. And frankly, the KB got lucky on defense. The KB AA actually hit something !!!


But ... it ended up on the low percentage side of things. Truthfully, for me, it hardly matters now. I've played so many game now with no, or little KB, that I've gotten quite good at keeping advancements going without a KB. Anyway, back to the AAR ....

[PaxMondo]

10 Dec 41 – Shigeji Abe - Hiroshima Shipyards

Shigeji sat looking at the paper in front of him. That he was going to richer than he ever dreamed was very true. But that was because he was very, very good at what he did. Unlike most of his predecessors, he actually knew what shipyards did, how they did it, and what they needed for all of that to happen. Right now, he is reviewing steel production capacity projections for the next 48 months. 48 months because ship building takes time and it takes planning. Shigeji knew himself as a planner and a schemer from the ground up.

Comparing the steel data against the ship building projection confirmed what he already suspected; damn BB’s used more steel than a province of anything.

He needed a meeting with Yamamoto and his staff and soon to get things in place and going. He knew what Isoroku was going to say, he just needed the chop on the paper to be able to support doing it.

[PaxMondo]

11 Dec 41 – Shigeji Abe - Hiroshima Shipyards

Commander Yoshi Yashiba stood waiting in the ante-room. He was way past his admiralty and knew he was never to get his flag. But, he was a good officer, an engineer to boot, and understood logistics like no one else in the Navy. Thus, he was the easy choice for this post: vessels to support the IJN in the coming years of conflict. His boss, Yamamoto himself, had made it clear that this was going to be a long conflict and that he needed to think in those terms. Yoshi had defined missions, culled all designs, and found few gaps, but a lot of wasted designs. For the gaps, he had estimates and several teams back in Hiroshima completing the preliminary designs.

Shigeji looked at him, short, thin, well into his 5th decade. He did not know Yoshi and had only been able to find out a little about him. In person, he was not imposing, but there was a quiet about him. Shigeji decided right there that this was not a person he would, or could, play. This was business and nothing more to be gained. Fine. His meetings with the SY’s had started off admirably. He could forego other pleasures.

Shigeji laid out his premise; choose a design to fit a function and build it. Dedicate appropriate resources to that and don’t change them. Simple. Yoshi smiled and simply said that all plans have to meet the test of the opponent, an old quote from SunTzu. Shigeji’s response was simple: we adapt at that time, but until then we stick to the plan. Changes are inefficient, and we need efficiency. Did he understand economies of scale? Improvement based upon repetition? Both of these are particularly applicable to ship building. Yoshi smiled once again and simply said: “Yes”.
Shigeji was a little taken back, his first inclination was right, but this was even deeper than he had thought. Shigeji asked, “And now?” Yoshi simply said, show me your build plans. Shigeji said, what do you need? To which Yoshi unrolled the document that he had carried.

By mission, by class there it was. A blueprint for the entire naval AND merchant fleet of Japan. Shigeji rocked back. How had Yoshi prepared this? This did not appear overnight, they had worked months, even years, on this. So while the Army was in the saddle, the Navy had not been idle. They had plans even though they could not execute them. Interesting. And more reason to be cautious here. “Can you summarize the proposal?”

Yoshi: Yes. Two major goals conjoin to form the overall plan. Force preservation and fuel economy. Fuel economy is achieved by using the largest possible design for the mission because in maritime the rule is larger is more efficient. Force preservation is accomplished by two means; repair and retrieval of damaged ships along with original protection of ships.

Shigeji: OK, so we are going to be building lots of large ships, support ships and patrol ships?

Yoshi: Yes, but more than that. Many ships are in fact small, but they are as big as they can be for the mission. EX: long haul tankers are very large, but there is absolute need for small tankers for the smaller ports and small mission profiles. The plan accounts for this and minimizes classes, in this case only 4 to be built.

Shigeji shakes his head, “4?, but that is too many, it needs to be one or two at most.”

Yoshi: No, it is 4. One very small, one very large, one medium, and one AO. Each has a distinct mission profile that it can accomplish at maximum efficiency. AV, 1 class. AP, 1 class. AK, 3 classes.

To this, Shigeji nods his head thinking ‘OK, this is more like it’.

Yoshi: Now, this does not include finishing off what is already started. There are a number of ships in process that it is better to complete, even though they are not optimal designs. In particular, subs fall into this group. And going forward for subs, 2 designs. In total, when he reviews the entire list, less than 50 designs down from the current over 100.

Shigeji: Amazing. He notes that most of the classes are already in production, there are a very few new ones that he needs to get answers to from Yoshi. Yoshi commits to have preliminary specs on all new designs sent over by courier later today. Now, he just needs to start matching up shipyards against the ship classes … something he is particularly skilled at … then the last question, volume? Yoshi’s reply is that it is not his responsibility. His understanding is that the High Council will be making those decisions, but that is all he knows. How they will be conveyed to Shigeji, he does not know.

He had committed to Yoshi to have a 1st pass completed within 2 days in terms of which yards would be dedicated to which vessels. He knew that the emperor was waiting and he had no intention of disappointing.