The World at War ELO Tournament

[ThunderLizard11]

[ELOs Ended]
ThunderLizard11 (axis) [WIN] v. arikogut (allies) [LOSS] - Allies resign June '44. Allies make strong landing in Normandy as Allies focus all resources on Germany. Russia on the rocks with Germans closing in on Perm and Moscow with help from Japan. Japan allowed to run amok in Pacific and took down Australia, New Zealand and much of India and China. Great turn returns from arikogut with 3-4 moves a day at times.

ThunderLizard11 (allies) [WIN] v. MerlinXL (axis) [LOSS] - Axis resigns Dec '44. Russia moving into Germany proper with Poland, Romania and Italy in Allies hands. Axis tried invading Russia through the Urals but progress was bogged down. Japan holds DEI after several succesful counter attacks but losing ground in China and the Phillipines. ALmost daily turns from Merlin with a few breaks.

[ELOs Started]
ThunderLizard11 (axis) v. boudi (allies)
ThunderLizard11 (axis) v. Harris45 (allies)
ThunderLizard11 (allies) v. arikogut (axis)

[DmitryN]

I have missed why this topic is under discussion, but if someone plans to create and support new rating I have an idea how to make the games between different level players more interesting.

Instead of win/loss result we can use scores. E.g. Axis: 1 country survived 1947 – 1 score, 2 countries – 2 scores, axis survived and either USSR or China+India is surrendered – 3 scores, one of the above + UK surrender – 4 scores; kill everybody including USA – 5 scores.
For allies: kill all axis 1947 – 1 score, kill all axis 1946 – 2 scores, kill all axis 1945 – 3 scores, 1944- 4, 1943 -5.

It can stimulate weaker players not to resign in the early game, but try to resist till the end. Above the descripted scores could be applied the existing mechanics of different value of win depending of players rating.

It is just the idea to think about.

[HarrySmith]

I have missed why this topic is under discussion, but if someone plans to create and support new rating I have an idea how to make the games between different level players more interesting.

Instead of win/loss result we can use scores. E.g. Axis: 1 country survived 1947 – 1 score, 2 countries – 2 scores, axis survived and either USSR or China+India is surrendered – 3 scores, one of the above + UK surrender – 4 scores; kill everybody including USA – 5 scores.
For allies: kill all axis 1947 – 1 score, kill all axis 1946 – 2 scores, kill all axis 1945 – 3 scores, 1944- 4, 1943 -5.

It can stimulate weaker players not to resign in the early game, but try to resist till the end. Above the descripted scores could be applied the existing mechanics of different value of win depending of players rating.

It is just the idea to think about.

Actually this looks like a very easy and straight forward system of scoring. To me it will encourage players to go the distance. Perhaps it needs to be available also for winner to post to keep it totally up to date.
The thing i would add is that your score is divided then by games played to give you a rating, otherwise someone who plays a number of games quickly could be on top of the ladder purely for that reason of having overall the highest score. For example if someone(a) plays 5 games for 10 points their rating is 2. Another person(b) playing 2 games for 8 points their rating is 4. Another person(c) plays 10 games for 15 points their rating is 1.5.
If it was based on highest score ranking would be c (15), a(10) and then b(8)
If based on rating the ranking would be b(4),a(2) and then c(1.5).
Rating would give a better indication of skill.

[ThunderLizard11]

Would like to hear from EarlyDoors but looks like he hasn't been around since March. At some point we'll need to start a new ladder or figure out how to update the current one. With any new system, we should have at least 3 people who can maintain.

[Taifun]

New ELO game started:

Taifun (Axis) vs Cpuncher (Allies).

The game ends prematurely in the summer of 1943 with a draw.
Cpuncher's daily work obligations interfered with the natural pace of the game.

[MerlinXL]

New ELO game started:
MerlinXL (Axis) vs. Umeu (Allies)

MerlinXL (Axis) loses to Umeu (Allies). Umeu outplayed me both strategically and tactically in every theater of combat. The Axis hightide was practically in September of 1939 with Poland falling on the first turn. It went from fair to bad to worse to catastrophic and eventually to total collapse from there, starting with the invasion of Belgium in November, 1939. Although the capital fell, Belgium didn't surrender until December (since two Belgium units were left intact). Despite the wintry weather conditions, the Panzers reached the outskirts of Paris by January of 1940. Paris finally fell in May, but it took until July for France to surrender (by zero moral). Meanwhile, the IJA made a push in southern China but the Chinese hit me hard in the lightly defended north. I didn't think too much of the initial losses, but before I knew it, several thousand boxes of ashes were being sent back home to the grieving families of the fallen warriors. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't stop the hemorrhaging in the north. Too many MPPs were going towards rebuilding destroyed armies and sending them back into the meat grinder. That put the Japanese way behind schedule in their quest for empire.

The Italians managed to deploy the bulk of their forces into North Africa before declaring war on the Allies, and they were allowed to push east all the way to start the siege of El Alamein by April of 1940. But that's as far as they got. The entire French and Royal Navy pounded the North African ports and cities to hell, totally disrupting supply lines. The Italians tried to make a stand at the Mersa Matruh bottleneck, but they got totally destroyed, and ended up getting pushed all the way back to Benghazi by the beginning of 1941. The Axis captured Malta in October of 1940, and the Luftwaffe air cover allowed for some of the North African ports to get repaired. Rommel and the Afrikan Corps arrived in Tripoli but a bit too late to save Benghazi, which fell at the end of January, 1941. But meanwhile, an all-out diplomatic effort to sway Turkey had been underway, and Turkey joined the Axis in February. The plan was to capture the Middle East with a pincher operation: from the east through the Levant and with Rommel attacking in the west, where he had advanced to outskirts of Benghazi. But this plan went off the rails when Rommel got totally out maneuvered by Montgomery, with a surprise amphibious landing that disrupted the Axis supply line. By April of 1941, the Levant and Iraq were in Axis hands. But the bottleneck at the Suez canal was well defended by the Allies, and the attack from the east stalled there. And yet another daring amphibious landing behind Rommel completely shattered the Axis position in the west. By July, Rommel, the Afrika Corps, the bulk of the Italian Army, and several Luftwaffe squadrons were all obliterated - a total disaster for the Axis.

Operation Barbarossa got underway in August, 1941. The Germans were allowed to advance east mostly unopposed - Stalin had withdrawn his troops somewhere deep inside Russia out of harms way of the initial attacks. In the south, the Germans grabed the key objectives of Kiev and Kharkov and were on the outskirts of Rostov. In the north, orders were given to halt at the Minsk-Kaunas-Memel line. With a diminished Wehrmacht due to the severe losses in North Africa and ongoing operations in the Middle East, there simply wasn't enough firepower to go any further. On top of that, the maximum diplomatic expenditures put all the Axis powers behind in research at this point. Meanwhile, the Russians had been very busy with fortifications in the Caucasus along the Turkish border. That area is tough to begin with and the stout defenses encountered quickly dispelled the hope of reaching the Baku oil fields any time soon.

Things did not go any better in the Battle of the Atlantic. The U-boats were hounded early on and losses quickly mounted. Replacing them further reduced MPPs for research or rebuilding the Wehrmacht. By the summer of 1942, the Axis had hardly laid a glove on the Allies, and that was when the Allied counter offensive started pushing the Axis backwards, and ultimately to defeat: Italians surrender in January of 1943, Turkey collapses in September, 1943, and Germany surrenders in October. Allies demand unconditional surrender of Japan, and Hirohito bears the unbearable in November.

Hat's off to a flawless performance by Umeu!

-MerlinXL

[ThunderLizard11]

[ELO Ended]
ThunderLizard11 (allies) [WIN] v. wirkey (axis) [LOSS] - wirkey resigned April 41. After a bit of a hiatus Wirkey returned to finish the match. Final nail for Axis was leaving Hungry's capital undefended which allow Paul's troops to march in unopposed.

[Taifun]

New ELO game "Race to Victory" scenario started.

Taifun (Axis) against DmitryN (Allies).

Allies win. Italy succumbed in the summer of 1941. The Japanese forces are unable to capture the Chinese capital.

[petedalby]

New ELO game begins:

HarrySmith(Allies) vs petedalby (Axis)

Game ends in a Decisive Allied Victory in early '44 as the Axis concede. Can't remember the last time either of us won a game as the Axis!

Harry is a great guy to play. Excellent comms & regular turns.

[HarrySmith]

New ELO game begins:

HarrySmith(Allies) vs petedalby (Axis)

Game ends in a Decisive Allied Victory in early '44 as the Axis concede. Can't remember the last time either of us won a game as the Axis!

Harry is a great guy to play. Excellent comms & regular turns.

Axis got away to a great start but pushed US mobilization in doing so. The US entered before the Japanese could be in position. Japanese did very well in China but just couldn't break through them totally. The Russians pushed into Manchuria cutting supply line affecting Japanese supply in China. Allies retook Egypt and made good gains into France. Russians starting to push back. Personally I feel it is extremely hard for Axis to win against an experienced Allied player now..As Pete most likely does too. An excellent player is Pete and we always have a very competitive game.

[HarrySmith]

New Game started HarrySmith (Axis) vs Dmitry(Allies) race to victory version as I feel it is the only chance for an Axis player against an experienced Allied player.

[petedalby]

New ELO game:

DmitryN (Allies) vs petedalby (Axis)

I'm like a lamb to the slaughter...but I'm sure it'll be fun!

[HARRIS45]

HARRIS45 (axis) defeats Pekkavilamoura (allies) who resigns 5/46 as Russia surrenders. Fun game with very good turn rate. We have played several games, and all have been fun. Russia surrendered late in game as allies conducted numerous invasions in S France, Italy (which surrendered), Yugo and drew axis forces from Russia. In Pacific Japan held much of China, Manila and home island never approached.

[Zarevic]

New ELO game starts:

ByNicho (AXIS) Vs Zarevic (Allies)

Zarevic (Allies) wins in 1945 with Allied forces deep in Germany. Japan still in relative good shape but defeat was sure.

GG by ByNicho

[nerquits12]

New ELO game begins:

Neverquits99(Axis) vs Old_Shane (Allies)

Game ended with Axis victory with the Allies resigning in Aug 1943. Great turn rate and coms

[petedalby]

New ELO game:

DmitryN (Allies) vs petedalby (Axis)

I'm like a lamb to the slaughter...but I'm sure it'll be fun!

It was fun - and I did get slaughtered!! Axis resigned in May '43 - on the back foot everywhere.

I've never sunk so many RN & USN CVs and capital ships but it all counted for nothing.

[DmitryN]

It was quite unusual and interesting game. Though I expected it will last much longer. For allies player early resignation of axis (may 1943) is always very disappointing. I have only begun my real assault back. We definitely need some rules of score calculation system which encourage players to hold till the end. Time of both side surviving should influence the scores.
Brief description of the game with some notes on the strategy.

(i) The main important and the most interesting theater of the game was the fight in the Med. Late summer-fall 1940, when Germs were near Al-Alamain UK attaked in Med from 2 sides in one turn with 7-8 LRAT and all the possible UK fleet including 3 new built EC. It was massive attack on all the axis aviation by LRAT and landing units and all type of UK carriers and aviation. 3-4 axis planes were killed one turn with another 3-4 damaged. Some axis NA cities were taken leaving germ land units out of supply. Actually, it was time for axis to fix loses and leave land troops in NA to die. But petedably decided to go “all in” NA. sending new and new tanks , concentrating all the axis aviation and all the german subs in the Med. It was 3 year of fight in the Med with front going from Egypt to Tunis and back to Tripoly and back to Tunis. With german LRAT landings Syria and Lybia, US landing in Algeria one unsuccessful and one successful allies landing in Italy, Malta changing hands twice and more than 20 killed planes and ships from both sides.
Med fight was very interesting, but in the same time it was absolute strategic mistake for axis. So much axis money were spent on buying and reinforcing german fleet and aviation in Med, that pressure in the USSR was very weak. No axis unit have crossed the Dnepr for more than 1 turn. USSR had so much resources that on spring 1943 Russians had all the possible tanks, shock armies and artillery either on field or in production list . All the killed units which can be bought back for half price were also bought back, abnormal for this time number of research hits were done. Russians began moving back from Dnepr to Russian border on summer 1942 (!).
NA is very important for axis but not for such cost. You can lose NA and win the game, but there is no way to win leaving USSR just waiting and developing.

(ii) Second big battle was around DEI. Allies took DEI capital in 1942 with US/Australian LRATs, moving all the US and remaining part of UK fleet, and a lot of aviation to protect it. It was an epic fleet battle for few months. I guess the casualties ratio in MPP terms was something 55/45 or even 60/40 in favor of Japs, but they were out of funds for reinforcement and allies anyway had fleet supremacy even after the Med casualties. It was also quite interesting fight and axis did well here.

(iii) Another axis strategic mistake was massive attack from Finland to North USSR. German tanks paras and some other units have even taken both Murmansk and Archangelsk. It is working strategy when axis attack in south USSR is also strong and Russians are out of resources. But this game USSR was so rich and UK had so big loses that I put 1% northern convoy to USSR from the beginning, even when northern ports were in my hands. Thus, in this circumstances, this attack brought axis only transportation costs and holding a lot of strong units in lower supply with worse weather. If these units were in the south Russia they could make 1,5 or even 2 times more casualties to the USSR.
If axis not resigned dramatic final waited this theater in 1-2 turns. On the last turn before resignation allies LRATS successfully attacked German HQ from side of White sea and have blocked retreat way for the axis land troops (anyway there were allies fleet near the ports of retreat). In the same turn few allies LRATs entered Baltic. Next turn Helsinki would be attacked by 3 LRATs, Russian bombers, paras and possibly Russian tanks. 1-2 turns Finland would surrender and all the germ army group would doomed.

(iv) The only theater where axis were quite successful was China. Petedalby reached here more gains than axis opponents in my 2 parallel games with Taifun and Harrysmith. Petedalby went forward disregarding loses which is absolutely reasonable strategy in China. Chunghing was lost fall 1942 only few chineese survived but very long distance remained to finally kill China.


As a result on may 1943: USSR begun massive attack against very weak germans south Russia soon will cross the borders, Finland is to fall next 1-2 turn, allies LRATs in Baltic, NA and south Italy taken by allies, DEI and a lot of pacific islands, including even Taiwan are in allies hands, China is far in the western part but definitely surviving before Japs are dead, some fight in Burma. If petedalby have not resigned I guess all the 3 axis countries will be dead till the end 1944.
Axis have shown quite good tactic but very risky strategy.

[petedalby]

Useful feedback Dmitry - thanks.

[wevilc]

Result!

Old_Shane (axis) -v- wevilc a win for the Axis. I made it to 1945 this time & surrendered Italy but by the end the Japs & the Nazis were rampant. Suffered an irreversible disaster in the Pacific. Many notes to self from this one.

GG Shane.

[wevilc]

New ELO game!

wevilc (axis) -v- Old_ Shane