Why no interception?

[panzer51]

Morning Air attack on TF, near Ternate at 78,102

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 2 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 0 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 23

Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 3

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
xAK Amakusa Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Hudson I bombing from 13000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Ryujo-1/A with A6M2 Zero (5 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(5 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
Ryujo-1/C with A6M2 Zero (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(1 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
Ryujo-1/B with A6M2 Zero (11 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 7000.
Raid is overhead


Allied bombers go straight to attack, no air-to-air before or after, why?

[pbiggar]

Time to target when raid was detected was 0 minutes. No opportunity to vector planes to intercept or launch planes ready on stand by. I am guessing the base and ships do not radar yet.

It sucks, but detection is not guaranteed. Radar improves the odds.

[dr.hal]

Plus raiding numbers are very small, thus not detected until overhead.... big raids are easier to detect.

[PaxMondo]

Plus raiding numbers are very small, thus not detected until overhead.... big raids are easier to detect.

And the weather ...

[panzer51]

Thanks

[Chris21wen]

and luck.

[Yaab]

The question we all should be asking is how the Hudsons can spot the xAK in Overcast weather from 15k feet.
There should be no interception and no bombing run, but the game doesn't provide for such outcomes.

[PaxMondo]

No, I'm good. Overcast, but not necessarily dense. Break in the clouds, they spot a single ship, drop from 3 miles up, miss completely due to overcast, and run home. CAP never finds them. Maybe the ship fired a few rounds of AA, but maybe not. Done. Totally plausible. Prolly happened a few hundred times during the war ....

[dr.hal]

No, I'm good. Overcast, but not necessarily dense. Break in the clouds, they spot a single ship, drop from 3 miles up, miss completely due to overcast, and run home. CAP never finds them. Maybe the ship fired a few rounds of AA, but maybe not. Done. Totally plausible. Prolly happened a few hundred times during the war ....

You paint a totally plausible picture given the game outcome of the strike. As has been said; "war is 99% boredom broken up by 1% shear terror." This strike was part of the 99%.

[RangerJoe]

While other fighters were being "diverted" to intercept, the last CAP fighter unit was too low since they had to climb 8,000 feet in two minutes!

[panzer51]

13,000 feet not 15,000. Question is why the planes at 12,000 didn't get there.

[RangerJoe]

13,000 feet not 15,000. Question is why the planes at 12,000 didn't get there.

They also have to be close enough in the horizontal space and not just the vertical space. But the bottom unit couldn't still climb fast enough. With overcast conditions, the Mark I eyeball detection method may not work too well. If there was no radar in the hex, then ground control may not have had a good vector to give to the CAP fighters for their interception. Not all CAP missions work.

[panzer51]

13,000 feet not 15,000. Question is why the planes at 12,000 didn't get there.

They also have to be close enough in the horizontal space and not just the vertical space. But the bottom unit couldn't still climb fast enough. With overcast conditions, the Mark I eyeball detection method may not work too well. If there was no radar in the hex, then ground control may not have had a good vector to give to the CAP fighters for their interception. Not all CAP missions work.

Yeah I understand how it's supposed to be in real life, I'm not sure how it's handled in the game. Like how does it decide where my CAP is?

[dr.hal]

when you select a sqdr of a/c to.be CAP, select the % of A/C to patrol and at what altitude to patrol. About 1/3 of the number of a/c you selected will be aloft at that altitude at an given day or night time hour........

[panzer51]

when you select a sqdr of a/c to.be CAP, select the % of A/C to patrol and at what altitude to patrol. About 1/3 of the number of a/c you selected will be aloft at that altitude at an given day or night time hour........

I know that. But there is also range, so let say range is 4, where is exactly my CAP then?

[PaxMondo]

when you select a sqdr of a/c to.be CAP, select the % of A/C to patrol and at what altitude to patrol. About 1/3 of the number of a/c you selected will be aloft at that altitude at an given day or night time hour........

I know that. But there is also range, so let say range is 4, where is exactly my CAP then?

could be 4 hexes away .... you need to be VERY careful with range. It will increase pilot fatigue and aircraft damage significantly.

Go back and read TheElf's post on interception. Lotta info there on this works.

[dr.hal]

The aircraft on CAP well attempt to intercept enemy aircraft that are spotted up to four hexes away. However they will concentrate over the hex where they are based.. This will allow the aircraft to intercept up to four hexes away from their home base. It differs from the long range CAP in that the aircraft are not dedicated to covering any additional hexs, but might make an intercept up to that four hex range if enemy aircraft are spotted in time and the homebase is not in need of them. If no range is selected, the CAP stays put over its base.

[dr.hal]

Pax is right, adding range greatly increases pilot fatigue and stresses the airframe.

[RangerJoe]

If I remember correctly, any CAP/LRCAP missions (possibly any mission) with a range greater than 2 hexes will increase the OPs losses as well.

Also, any "extra" fighters not on CAP that is not resting or on another mission may be scrambled for defensive CAP. So there is seldom need to have a very high CAP percentage. Unless, of course, you know that you are going to be attacked and don't have radar support.

[Chris21wen]

when you select a sqdr of a/c to.be CAP, select the % of A/C to patrol and at what altitude to patrol. About 1/3 of the number of a/c you selected will be aloft at that altitude at an given day or night time hour........

I know that. But there is also range, so let say range is 4, where is exactly my CAP then?

Max range for CAP is 3. The range is centred on whatever target you set but the target must also be within 3 hexes. Without a target its it's own base. The further the target is away and the more range you set the least likelyhood there is of an interception, can't remember to figure if I ever knew them. Then there's patrol numbers, area, weather, radar, pilots and other stuff preventing an interception.

If you want ranges >3 then you need LRCAP but LRCAP must have a target otherwise the rules are the same.