Another Bug or Unintended Consequences?

[petedalby]

PBEM game 494019

Japan has declared war on the UK but not India. A UK Strat Bomber in Ledo has bombed Kweichow once but cannot make its second bombing run. Why not?

Indian units in Burma cannot enter China - despite being allied with China.

Another anomaly - an Indian Corps in Singapore was destroyed by Japan yet they are supposedly not at war.

The easy solution, I would suggest, is that if Japan declares war on the UK then it should also be considered to be at war with India.

[BillRunacre]

An Axis declaration of war on the UK will fully mobilize India.

A fully mobilized India will automatically be at war with Japan if the USA is also fully mobilized.

So I guess the situation in your game is that the US is still neutral?

Regarding the situation in Singapore, if Malaya, as a Minor, is at war with Japan then allied forces can enter the country and fight over it, despite not being at war with Japan, i.e. they could not fight each other within their own territory, but they can on the territory of a third party.

[petedalby]

Thanks for the prompt reply Bill. India was already fully mobilised. Yes, the USA is neutral.

Any idea why the UK Strat Bomber can't make it's second attack?

Personally I think I'd still prefer to see an attack on the UK as an attack on India if it's already mobilised. India is at war with Germany due to its mobilisation. Why not Japan as well?

[Umeu]

another thing I noticed in this game is that the Okamura HQ, which starts in Haikou, can command 1 unit less than the other Japanese HQs. At no C&C researched, it could command only 4 units, and with lvl 1 C&C, it can command 5, while all other HQs can command one more.

I'm playing vs Dalby so it's the same game.

[petedalby]

A quick update. My Strat Bomber can make 2 attacks into Japanese held territory in China but are still unable to attack the same target twice. Which of course makes them completely ineffective...

[BillRunacre]

Any idea why the UK Strat Bomber can't make it's second attack?

I don't, but Hubert might.

Personally I think I'd still prefer to see an attack on the UK as an attack on India if it's already mobilised. India is at war with Germany due to its mobilisation. Why not Japan as well?

I'll have to add an extra script to account for this situation.

[BillRunacre]

another thing I noticed in this game is that the Okamura HQ, which starts in Haikou, can command 1 unit less than the other Japanese HQs. At no C&C researched, it could command only 4 units, and with lvl 1 C&C, it can command 5, while all other HQs can command one more.

I'm playing vs Dalby so it's the same game.

There is no game mechanism to allow that. Could it be that only 4 units are in range?

[Umeu]

Personally I think I'd still prefer to see an attack on the UK as an attack on India if it's already mobilised. India is at war with Germany due to its mobilisation. Why not Japan as well?

You might want to be careful what you wish for XD the reason I did not declare war on India is because that's another big hit on USA mobilization. If India mobilizes because I DoW on the UK, then this obstacle is gone, meaning that I can now attack the UK fleet in Indian ports (whereas otherwise, the UK fleet could seek refuge in India and be saved from the IJN which is stronger most likely)

So, while I do think it makes sense historically to make India at war with Japan if either UK or Japan DoW's the other side, it might not be advantageous for the allies from a game-perspective.

[Umeu]

another thing I noticed in this game is that the Okamura HQ, which starts in Haikou, can command 1 unit less than the other Japanese HQs. At no C&C researched, it could command only 4 units, and with lvl 1 C&C, it can command 5, while all other HQs can command one more.

I'm playing vs Dalby so it's the same game.

There is no game mechanism to allow that. Could it be that only 4 units are in range?

no, more than enough units were in range. It seems fixed now, I think somehow 2 HQs were commanding the same unit. Not sure how that happened.

[BillRunacre]

Personally I think I'd still prefer to see an attack on the UK as an attack on India if it's already mobilised. India is at war with Germany due to its mobilisation. Why not Japan as well?

You might want to be careful what you wish for XD the reason I did not declare war on India is because that's another big hit on USA mobilization. If India mobilizes because I DoW on the UK, then this obstacle is gone, meaning that I can now attack the UK fleet in Indian ports (whereas otherwise, the UK fleet could seek refuge in India and be saved from the IJN which is stronger most likely)

So, while I do think it makes sense historically to make India at war with Japan if either UK or Japan DoW's the other side, it might not be advantageous for the allies from a game-perspective.

A solution that while it doesn't fix India's lack of belligerence with Japan, but that should discourage an Axis declaration of war is to double the increase in US mobilization as a result of this. Hopefully that will make an Axis player think twice before doing this!

[Umeu]

Personally I think I'd still prefer to see an attack on the UK as an attack on India if it's already mobilised. India is at war with Germany due to its mobilisation. Why not Japan as well?

You might want to be careful what you wish for XD the reason I did not declare war on India is because that's another big hit on USA mobilization. If India mobilizes because I DoW on the UK, then this obstacle is gone, meaning that I can now attack the UK fleet in Indian ports (whereas otherwise, the UK fleet could seek refuge in India and be saved from the IJN which is stronger most likely)

So, while I do think it makes sense historically to make India at war with Japan if either UK or Japan DoW's the other side, it might not be advantageous for the allies from a game-perspective.

A solution that while it doesn't fix India's lack of belligerence with Japan, but that should discourage an Axis declaration of war is to double the increase in US mobilization as a result of this. Hopefully that will make an Axis player think twice before doing this!

I don’t think it needs to be fixed. There are already plenty negative effects for Japan so I don’t think it’s very viable for Japan to begin with. It’s a very risky move. For it to pay off, Japan has to trade really well into the RN and basically trap it in conjunction with the Kriegsmarine and Italian navy. And even then… it will be hard for Japan to be battleready for PH in time. UK mobilization goes up 10-15% about a year earlier than normal. DEI goes to Allies, so Japan loses the convoy about half a year earlier or more than usual. And several minors in the East mobilize, granding the UK more units and income, as well as making it less likely that Japan can easily take these places as India can send troops there before Japan is likely to take them. Or, if Japan prepared invasion to go along with the DoW on the UK and attack on the navy, it means that Japan could not invest in a lot in preparing for the future war with the US, since they need to put mpp towards their fleet and amphibious transports, which otherwise could have been spent on tech, new units such as carriers, or upgrading the army. And since they lose the DEI convoy, they will also have less mpp to prepare with after.

So, all in all, I would say I am slightly worse off for doing this move, but the threat of it is enough to keep the UK player wary and quick on their feet.

I don’t think anything needs to be changed, except perhaps making India at war with Japan if enough players want to see it. It does mean India can assist China early which coupd be helpful sometimes.

btw, will the fix for the US fleet appearing at the end of turn rather than at start of turn be savegame compatible?

[petedalby]

I like Bill's suggested solution. In my view players should be penalised for doing unhistorical things.

[Umeu]

Russia and Japan are suddenly at war with each other without any DoW by either player.

Strange so many random things seem to be not WAD this patch.

[BillRunacre]

Russia and Japan are suddenly at war with each other without any DoW by either player.

Strange so many random things seem to be not WAD this patch.

If the USSR surrenders then Japan will automatically have a belligerent status with the USSR, so that its units can enter former Soviet territory.

Other than that, in games against the AI the USSR and Japan will automatically be at war if there are Allied units within 3 hexes of Berlin.

Anything else would - barring some weird bug - have to be done by a player.

[Umeu]

Russia and Japan are suddenly at war with each other without any DoW by either player.

Strange so many random things seem to be not WAD this patch.

If the USSR surrenders then Japan will automatically have a belligerent status with the USSR, so that its units can enter former Soviet territory.

Other than that, in games against the AI the USSR and Japan will automatically be at war if there are Allied units within 3 hexes of Berlin.

Anything else would - barring some weird bug - have to be done by a player.

It’s a weird bug then since I did not DoW, nor did my opponent. There was no in-game notification of DoW which usually accompanies the DoW, such as China being happy to have Russia on their side, giving them a morale boost.

Btw, is the fix to the pearl harbor fleet spawn save game compatible?

[BillRunacre]

Btw, is the fix to the pearl harbor fleet spawn save game compatible?

Yes it should be.

[Umeu]

Btw, is the fix to the pearl harbor fleet spawn save game compatible?

Yes it should be.

just realized I didn't specify it enough, does that include ongoing PBEM games or just singleplayer?

[BillRunacre]

Btw, is the fix to the pearl harbor fleet spawn save game compatible?

Yes it should be.

just realized I didn't specify it enough, does that include ongoing PBEM games or just singleplayer?

No need to specify, if one can continue, all can continue!