The Sky’s the Limit- PBEM GC 41 jubjub (Axis) vs. M60A3TTS (Soviet)

Please post your after action reports on your battles and campaigns here.

Moderator: Joel Billings

User avatar
M60A3TTS
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 1:20 am

Re: The Sky’s the Limit- PBEM GC 41 jubjub (Axis) vs. M60A3TTS (Soviet)

Post by M60A3TTS »

One of the things in the manual makes reference to aircraft information contained in the editor. A typical depiction of the information available, from the old editor version that I prefer, looks like this for MiG-3.

Image

You will note in the bottom left hand portion of the screen shows information related to the MiG-3. As with all aircraft information includes the fastest speed of the aircraft, the altitude where that fastest speed is achieved, as well as the speed of the aircraft at zero altitude.

Since the difference between speed at ideal altitude and zero altitude is a straight line, we can create a formula that will calculate the speed of the aircraft at any altitude in between and compare it to other aircraft.

Like so:

Image

Here we can see that at 6,000 feet, a Bf109G-2 achieves a superior speed of 354 mph in comparison to the Yak-1 at 321mph, the LaGG-3 at 316mph, and the MiG-3 at 313mph.

Although speed is not the decisive factor in air-to-air combat, it at least gives us one aspect of the game to look at aside from experience that is so often in favor of Luftwaffe pilots.

Now if we take this a step further and do a speed comparison for the more common fighter aircraft in 1943-44, we can help decide what aircraft we may want to prioritize for air-to-air operations, again with the understanding this is only one facet of the overall calculations that go into deciding who wins and who loses.

Here are some speed comparisons for Bf-109
Image

And some others against Fw-190
Image

We can see that in a lot of cases the German aircraft remain superior, but there are some exceptions with aircraft such as La-5FN, P39 and Yak-3 aircraft, particularly at 10,000 feet and below. Interestingly, Yak-1B did not fare as well as one might expect. Still these are the numbers and may give folks a better idea of what Soviet fighter aircraft stand out in the speed competition.
User avatar
Wiedrock
Posts: 1700
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:44 pm
Location: Germany

Re: The Sky’s the Limit- PBEM GC 41 jubjub (Axis) vs. M60A3TTS (Soviet)

Post by Wiedrock »

Good comparisons, I also assumed it's be using the Altitude a plane flies at. The issue with that is which Altitude is being used if the Combat Report shows an Axis plane Group at 20k and a Soviet one at 23k.
M60A3TTS wrote: Wed Oct 01, 2025 1:44 am Although speed is not the decisive factor in air-to-air combat, it at least gives us one aspect of the game to look at aside from experience that is so often in favor of Luftwaffe pilots.
IIRC, I read somewhere (not sure if Dev statement in the Forum or in the Manual), that speed is the most important plane stat.

Have your found/ever looked at "climb rate" being used for anything?
User avatar
M60A3TTS
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 1:20 am

Re: The Sky’s the Limit- PBEM GC 41 jubjub (Axis) vs. M60A3TTS (Soviet)

Post by M60A3TTS »

I have seen Rate of Climb mentioned as a factor that affects air-to-air combat, though to what extent your guess is as good as mine.

Here is some sample data related to Rate of Climb. And yes, you're reading it right, the I-16 Rata has a faster RoC than an Fw190A-5.

Image
User avatar
M60A3TTS
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 1:20 am

Re: The Sky’s the Limit- PBEM GC 41 jubjub (Axis) vs. M60A3TTS (Soviet)

Post by M60A3TTS »

Game over.

I've been halted with 10+ million casualties at the end of 1943 and just don't have the desire to continue with this.

Thanks to everyone who invested time reading and commenting in the AAR.
User avatar
tyronec
Posts: 5448
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:11 am
Location: Portaferry, N. Ireland

Re: The Sky’s the Limit- PBEM GC 41 jubjub (Axis) vs. M60A3TTS (Soviet)

Post by tyronec »

Game over.

I've been halted with 10+ million casualties at the end of 1943 and just don't have the desire to continue with this.
Am surprised as I thought you were winning, but thanks for an excellent AAR and good insights into handling the VVS.
The lark, signing its chirping hymn,
Soars high above the clouds;
Meanwhile, the nightingale intones
With sweet, mellifluous sounds.
Enough of Stalin, Freedom for the Ukraine !
User avatar
Q-Ball
Posts: 7401
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:43 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Re: The Sky’s the Limit- PBEM GC 41 jubjub (Axis) vs. M60A3TTS (Soviet)

Post by Q-Ball »

M60A3TTS wrote: Mon Oct 13, 2025 3:49 am Game over.

I've been halted with 10+ million casualties at the end of 1943 and just don't have the desire to continue with this.

Thanks to everyone who invested time reading and commenting in the AAR.
Fantastic AAR with insight into the VVS! Would be interested to see your end-point, including final screens on OOB and Casualties, and maybe a little more color on why you think the Soviet position is hopeless

Not many games get into late 1943 it seems so some insight would be great!
User avatar
Wiedrock
Posts: 1700
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:44 pm
Location: Germany

Re: The Sky’s the Limit- PBEM GC 41 jubjub (Axis) vs. M60A3TTS (Soviet)

Post by Wiedrock »

Awesome VVS AAR indeed. Maybe continuation at a later point? ;)

Yep, some final numbers would be awesome (for those that like numbers). :ugeek:
I'd rly like to see how the Equipment Pools look like.
User avatar
PPetar
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:59 am
Location: Serbia

Re: The Sky’s the Limit- PBEM GC 41 jubjub (Axis) vs. M60A3TTS (Soviet)

Post by PPetar »

Hey M60, just wanted to say well played and thank you for sharing the game with us, it has been really enjoyable to follow.
Lurberri
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 8:04 am

Re: The Sky’s the Limit- PBEM GC 41 jubjub (Axis) vs. M60A3TTS (Soviet)

Post by Lurberri »

Fantastic game, congratulations to both players. Thanks, M60, for the wealth of tips you shared (including everything related to using aircraft). It was all very interesting.
TallBlondJohn
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:40 pm

Re: The Sky’s the Limit- PBEM GC 41 jubjub (Axis) vs. M60A3TTS (Soviet)

Post by TallBlondJohn »

Sad to see this end but thanks to both players, its been quite a journey
Sertorius21
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2024 3:40 pm

Re: The Sky’s the Limit- PBEM GC 41 jubjub (Axis) vs. M60A3TTS (Soviet)

Post by Sertorius21 »

May I extend the thanks for this excellent set of reports, with so much useful advice - quite a shame I am playing the German in my game!

Like the others, I struggle to see, on the basis of the last battle outcomes, how you were not heading towards victory.
User avatar
M60A3TTS
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 1:20 am

Re: The Sky’s the Limit- PBEM GC 41 jubjub (Axis) vs. M60A3TTS (Soviet)

Post by M60A3TTS »

Here are the map pics

Image

Image

Image

OOB. Keeping the army above 6 million effective could only be accomplished by pauses in the action. That would have been even more challenging with manpower multiples ready to tank in 1944.

Image

Ground losses. Well on the way to 11 million and we aren't into 1944 yet.

Image

Air Losses

Image

Vehicles. It was only in the last few weeks the vehicle needs were under control and in surplus. More vehicles would have been available via Lend Lease in 1944, but to what end? Building a bunch of new stuff with limited manpower, already widespread unit manpower shortages and 35 experience to start isn't encouraging.

Image

Armor production. Decent number of vehicles. Didn't touch the flame tanks much. For the individual who complained about not having King Tigers in his heavy tank battalions in another thread, note the Soviets share the same problem, with an unused pool of KV-85s and IS-1s. The new IS-2s would have sat as well. Meanwhile the KV-1S losses are replaced by older KV-1 tanks.

Image

Active aircraft pools. There are huge stockpiles of tac bombers and enormously wasted production of U-2VS. Not enough formations even to throw vast quantities of U2-VS' away. Fighters are what matter in dictating how much airpower can influence battles. Also, lack of vehicles and manpower made keeping the VVS at full strength on the map was starting to be a challenge.

Image

Here are half my tank corps, none of which are guards. Totally messed up here, they could have all been guards had it been managed properly. As it was, jubjub fought in such a way any overly exposed tank corps was decimated. It was only later I tried to cover them with rifle corps. I would have been better off sticking to more brigades as support units.

Image

Compare how two groups of artillery perform in a Soviet assault on a Level 3 fort. Here, 32 German M18 Howitzers had about 25% more HE hits than 1,324 Soviet artillery pieces.

Image
Post Reply

Return to “After Action Reports”