Reinforcing Air Squadrons

[dpt182]

Hi,

I've noticed a lot of reinforcing air squadrons only seem to have 2 aircraft & 2 pilots (including the squadron commander). I'll accept this was US practice as I know nothing about their organisation, but I don't see the RAF forming a squadron of 2 aircraft and sending it to the Far East, especially without Pilots to fill the squadron, it would be a waste of effort. Why this error?

Regards

David

[RangerJoe]

Hi,

I've noticed a lot of reinforcing air squadrons only seem to have 2 aircraft & 2 pilots (including the squadron commander). I'll accept this was US practice as I know nothing about their organisation, but I don't see the RAF forming a squadron of 2 aircraft and sending it to the Far East, especially without Pilots to fill the squadron, it would be a waste of effort. Why this error?

Regards

David

This is not an error. The US military was usually starting new units and forming them up with new pilots and equipment. The RAF was usually sending complete squadrons from/through the Middle East to SEAC. If you don't want those units, you can always disband them.

[dpt182]

Hi,
thanks for the reply. I have disbanded several US bomber HQ squadrons (as they are tiny) and stuck the plane into another bomber squadron, but I'm nervous about disbanded RAF & bigger US squadrons in case I get a bunch of planes later. I suppose I could try just withdrawing them for 90 days though and see what happens
Thanks
David

[Chris21wen]

In v28.4 scen #1 other than some FP I can only see one AG that arrives that has an authorised AC of two. A picture or at least group name would help.

You should read the manual and the Air War guide (p42-44). It is a bit complecated because there are both schedules and unscheduled removals, with two types of removal, withdraw or disband. Each has their own rules.

US HQ AG are scheduled to disband on there own and do not come back.

Not sure what this means '...in case I get a bunch of planes later.' In general for unscheduled removals:-

A withdrawn unit can come back in 60 days, AC are either transferred, lost, or go to the pool, pilots remain with the unit.

Disband units can return after 120 days but AC and pilots are either lost or returned to the pool.

AG set to return come back with the pilots they left with but have no AC. The can arrive with a bare skeleton number, usually two but in some rare instances with zero. This is down to lack of aircraft and or pilots in pools at the time they return.

[RangerJoe]

Hi,
thanks for the reply. I have disbanded several US bomber HQ squadrons (as they are tiny) and stuck the plane into another bomber squadron, but I'm nervous about disbanded RAF & bigger US squadrons in case I get a bunch of planes later. I suppose I could try just withdrawing them for 90 days though and see what happens
Thanks
David

Why don't you check the Intelligence screen ("i" on the toolbar on the top left) and check the aircraft replacements and builds. That might give you some information. Then, once you get more aircraft available, you can give replacements to your air units. In the meantime, TRAIN your pilots!

[dpt182]

In v28.4 scen #1 other than some FP I can only see one AG that arrives that has an authorised AC of two. A picture or at least group name would help.

Hi Chris,.
I was referring to No.79 Sqn RAF & also the US 307 & 308 BG's, equipped with B18 Bolo (I never heard of this aircraft before playing this game) & B17e; I think the HQ's would have disbanded at some point in the future, but I did it early. I am wondering where the aircraft come from to fill them out especially when they increase in size to 12 aircraft in August.
kind regards
David

[btd64]

Hi,
thanks for the reply. I have disbanded several US bomber HQ squadrons (as they are tiny) and stuck the plane into another bomber squadron, but I'm nervous about disbanded RAF & bigger US squadrons in case I get a bunch of planes later. I suppose I could try just withdrawing them for 90 days though and see what happens
Thanks
David

I disband or withdraw all USAAF hq squadrons. Sometimes you can keep the planes and you can always keep the pilot's. Any squadron that is grayed out or set to withdraw without having a return date I setup for training and withdraw or disband at the appropriate time. Don't fill out squadrons with aircraft that meet the above criteria. Save your pools of aircraft for front line units....GP

[dpt182]

[/quote]
Any squadron that is grayed out or set to withdraw without having a return date I setup for training and withdraw or disband at the appropriate time. Don't fill out squadrons with aircraft that meet the above criteria. Save your pools of aircraft for front line units....GP
[/quote]
Ok, that's what I'm doing now, with the gray'd out squadrons; except some I sent to Alaska/Aleutains. So I should turn reinforcements off for these squadrons as well & leave them at 2 planes and train just 2 pilots; should I also put a 60+ skill pilot in the squadron to help them train as well?
Kind Regards
David

[RangerJoe]

I keep those air HQ units and use those to train pilots. I can get some of those aircraft out of those restricted air units that are disbanded but you don't keep the aircraft. Yes, I figured out how to do that.

The B-17 undergoing testing for the competition for a new army bomber crashed. Therefore, the B-18 Bolo won although the B-17 still received production orders. Later a Lieutenant named Curtis LeMay navigating a B-17 (along with 2 others) and intercepted the Andrea SS Rex 620 miles East of the USA.

https://www.afmc.af.mil/News/Article-Di ... he-ss-rex/

[Chris21wen]

Any squadron that is grayed out or set to withdraw without having a return date I setup for training and withdraw or disband at the appropriate time. Don't fill out squadrons with aircraft that meet the above criteria. Save your pools of aircraft for front line units....GP
[/quote]
Ok, that's what I'm doing now, with the gray'd out squadrons; except some I sent to Alaska/Aleutains. So I should turn reinforcements off for these squadrons as well & leave them at 2 planes and train just 2 pilots; should I also put a 60+ skill pilot in the squadron to help them train as well?
Kind Regards
David
[/quote]

Pleae read the Air war guide https://forums.matrixgames.com/viewtopi ... 3&t=396274. All the stuff you have asked recently is in it.

It's all about timing and availability, when they leave and how many spare AC you think you have. Most USA AG don't start to leave until Feb so you can use them and fill them out if you have spare (unlikely) AC. There is nothing stopping you filling them out with pilots for training, all you need to do is remember to remove the pilots before you disband the AG or you'll lose them.

AG train faster with a full complement of AC.

Form page 51 of the guide.
'The overall experience and skill of a unit, its leader and other pilots in the unit can ’rub off’ on other pilots. Hence
there is a random chance at the end of every day that pilot exp and skill will improve.'

It's not quick and very random. Although it apples to all units there's no point in putting experience pilots in a training unit as training unit train far faster.

[Stibbert]

You should never disband an air squadron - they're essential to your pilot-training program. Even w/ only 2 planes, over time they'll reliably train skills to around 60-level & increase experience to about 50-level, for their full complement of pilots drawn from the robust USA/USN/USMC replacement-pilot pools. Gaining 2 planes to your airframe pool does next to nothing for your combat power, but developing a robust pilot-training pipeline means everything. Over time, aircraft production ramps up & you'll be able to fill these squadrons w/ 2nd-line airframes, or give them 1st-line planes & transfer them to the front.
Never withdraw an airgroup unless its scheduled for automatic withdrawal - in that case, manually withdraw it 1 day or so before its scheduled withdrawal date, that'll give you a PP addition. But first, withdraw its pilots to the reserve pool, & 'upgrade' its planes to 3rd-line airframes.
Also, take note of British BB & Cruiser withdrawals - always transfer their floatplanes to an on-map base before you withdraw them. You'll eventually receive new or returning Brit capital ships, but they won't have any floatplanes, you'll need to marry them to the FP sections that you saved.

[Chris21wen]

You should never disband an air squadron - they're essential to your pilot-training program. Even w/ only 2 planes, over time they'll reliably train skills to around 60-level & increase experience to about 50-level, for their full complement of pilots drawn from the robust USA/USN/USMC replacement-pilot pools. Gaining 2 planes to your airframe pool does next to nothing for your combat power, but developing a robust pilot-training pipeline means everything. Over time, aircraft production ramps up & you'll be able to fill these squadrons w/ 2nd-line airframes, or give them 1st-line planes & transfer them to the front.
Never withdraw an airgroup unless its scheduled for automatic withdrawal - in that case, manually withdraw it 1 day or so before its scheduled withdrawal date, that'll give you a PP addition. But first, withdraw its pilots to the reserve pool, & 'upgrade' its planes to 3rd-line airframes.
Also, take note of British BB & Cruiser withdrawals - always transfer their floatplanes to an on-map base before you withdraw them. You'll eventually receive new or returning Brit capital ships, but they won't have any floatplanes, you'll need to marry them to the FP sections that you saved.

Sorry couldn't disagree more. You have to disband/withdraw some air units or you will lose PPs. These mostly represent AG moving out of theatre. To volunarily disband/withdraw of a unit is often essential due to lack of AC elsewhere. Yes they are essential for training but the aircraft tied up in the units, however many that may be,are also essential. If you don't need them don't, but to say never! As to when, then that's entirely up to the current game situation and doing it early will result in more PPs.

Having said that it's you game.

[RangerJoe]

You should never disband an air squadron - they're essential to your pilot-training program. Even w/ only 2 planes, over time they'll reliably train skills to around 60-level & increase experience to about 50-level, for their full complement of pilots drawn from the robust USA/USN/USMC replacement-pilot pools. Gaining 2 planes to your airframe pool does next to nothing for your combat power, but developing a robust pilot-training pipeline means everything. Over time, aircraft production ramps up & you'll be able to fill these squadrons w/ 2nd-line airframes, or give them 1st-line planes & transfer them to the front.
Never withdraw an airgroup unless its scheduled for automatic withdrawal - in that case, manually withdraw it 1 day or so before its scheduled withdrawal date, that'll give you a PP addition. But first, withdraw its pilots to the reserve pool, & 'upgrade' its planes to 3rd-line airframes.
Also, take note of British BB & Cruiser withdrawals - always transfer their floatplanes to an on-map base before you withdraw them. You'll eventually receive new or returning Brit capital ships, but they won't have any floatplanes, you'll need to marry them to the FP sections that you saved.

Sorry couldn't disagree more. You have to disband/withdraw some air units or you will lose PPs. These mostly represent AG moving out of theatre. To volunarily disband/withdraw of a unit is often essential due to lack of AC elsewhere. Yes they are essential for training but the aircraft tied up in the units, however many that may be,are also essential. If you don't need them don't, but to say never! As to when, then that's entirely up to the current game situation and doing it early will result in more PPs.

Having said that it's you game.

There are ways to get aircraft out of restricted units so you can use them in other units. In the meantime, keep the units around to train pilots. Even if they aren't fully trained, they can go to another unit and continue their training.

But as the original poster stated, keep those squadrons around until the day before they withdraw. By withdrawing them one day early, you can get some precious PPs which are so desperately needed early in the game. Also, you won't always get the aircraft from those units that withdraw when they withdraw. I think you do keep the aircraft if the unit comes back later but not if it is a permanent withdraw with no return.

[Chris21wen]

I think maybe we are talking at cross purposes.

There are both scheduled and unscheduled AG removals each with two methods, withdraw or disband.

Anything scheduled should be kept as late as possible for, as has been said, training.
Scheduled withdrawal past their date loses PPs, earlier and you can can PPs but it can be two early. If you do it too early, (120 day), they will still have be withdrawn. Withdrawn AG come back with what they left with and represents rest and recuperation.
Scheduled disbandment past their date loses PPs. You get nothing for early disbanding. All AC are lost to the game but the pilots can be moved to the reserve. For the Allies this represents units going out of theatre. For the Japanese it's reorganisation with all ready AC and pilots going to the pool.

Unscheduled is voluntary and a means of re-organising AGs. Any AG voluntarily removed in this way comes back and is primarily a means of obtaining their AC. They can either be merged with an existing AG at the same base or returned to the pool.
Unschedule withdrawal to another AG tranfers all AC to that unit, the pilots stay with the unit. If there is no unit to join then all ready AC go to the pool instead, unready AC are lost. The AG can come back as reinforcements after 60 days with their pilots and no AC.
Unschedule disbanding to another AG tranfers all AC to that unit and pilots. It ther cannot merge then all ready AC go to the pool instead, unready AC are lost and the pilots are return to the pool. The AG can come back as reinforcement after 120 days coming back with what it left with, nothing.

[dpt182]

You should never disband an air squadron - they're essential to your pilot-training program. Even w/ only 2 planes, over time they'll reliably train skills to around 60-level & increase experience to about 50-level, for their full complement of pilots drawn from the robust USA/USN/USMC replacement-pilot pools. Gaining 2 planes to your airframe pool does next to nothing for your combat power, but developing a robust pilot-training pipeline means everything. Over time, aircraft production ramps up & you'll be able to fill these squadrons w/ 2nd-line airframes, or give them 1st-line planes & transfer them to the front.
Never withdraw an airgroup unless its scheduled for automatic withdrawal - in that case, manually withdraw it 1 day or so before its scheduled withdrawal date, that'll give you a PP addition. But first, withdraw its pilots to the reserve pool, & 'upgrade' its planes to 3rd-line airframes.
Also, take note of British BB & Cruiser withdrawals - always transfer their floatplanes to an on-map base before you withdraw them. You'll eventually receive new or returning Brit capital ships, but they won't have any floatplanes, you'll need to marry them to the FP sections that you saved.

Thanks for the advice, I never knew that returning RN cruisers lost their FP's, a lot of RN cruisers (I'm only on 2nd May 1942, still playing my first game, with 2 or 3 turns /real time week) only have 1 or zero FP's anyway. When I first saw the air war guide I thought about starting again, but kicking out surplus pilots gave me a good 40 to 50+ skill reserve pool. I've been neglecting to withdraw some air groups early some Chinese ones cost me a bunch of PP's.
Thanks for the advice
David

[dpt182]

I think maybe we are talking at cross purposes.There are both scheduled and unscheduled AG removals each with two methods, withdraw or disband.

Unschedule withdrawal to another AG tranfers all AC to that unit, the pilots stay with the unit. If there is no unit to join then all ready AC go to the pool instead, unready AC are lost. The AG can come back as reinforcements after 60 days with their pilots and no AC.

Thanks Chris,

This is what I've been doing with US bomber HQ units, the plane transfers to one of the subordinate units that need it & I think from the memory the pilots do as well (probably not the squadron leader though)
Thanks for the help

David