Never Thought I'd Start Another One - tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J)

[Mike Solli]

22 Mar 42
Other Stuff

Just a small update on my aircraft R&D. I have 2 factories that are completely repaired. One is at Tojo and the other a Zero factory. Yes, I get the newest model of each in June 42, but I really need the Tojo, even the IIa when compared to the Oscar.

I know, the Ki-43 is just so disappointing ... a slightly faster Ki-27, and how is THAT going to help you against anything more than a I-15 or P26? It doesn't in fact.

Yes, the Ki-44 is a far better plane than the early Ki-43's, but it is still not nearly as good as the A6M; it lacks both fire power (20mm cannon vs 12.7mm MG) and range (14 vs 8) for offensive actions. Still have to move to the Ki-44, but doesn't mean I like it. This is what eventually forced me into going all out on the Ki-84. 70% of your fighter groups are IJA, not IJN, so that means you need a GOOD IJA fighter; and the first best answer to that is the Ki-84. So, I go "all in" on it. Literally. But you still can't get it before early '43 so ... that's +15 months of war before you get a good answer.

The last time I played a stock scenario, I continually "dismounted" most of my KB fighters and used them to "shore up" my offensive punch. A6M groups can cover a LOT of distance far FASTER than the KB using only a little supply and NOT tons of fuel. So, I dismount say 4 of 6 fighter groups whenever the KB is idle or in transit and get a LOT of use out of them. Yes, there are losses, but here are few things to consider:
- you have your VERY BEST IJN fighter leaders on these groups. The more use, the better the return on this PP investment.
- it is easy to swap out your best pilots for decent pilots
- allows you to grow your IJN pilot pool of good pilots. Yes, of course you lose some, but the ones you don't are now good replacements in the KB and you both got them there sooner and got good use out of them.

Downside is you have to build more A6M's than you normally would, but isn't spending that HI and supply on an A6M a better value than a Ki-43?

I digress ...

I understand what you're saying and don't disagree with you at all. I like to fill out KB's fighter groups when they're not deployed to work on training pilots. When they deploy, I dump the fighters in the pool and pull them back out when they return. I do understand using them as land based when they're not deployed, but just can't bring myself to do that. I use the land based IJN fighter units to provide replacements for KB. The land based Zero units have 3x elite pilots, enough 70+/70+ pilots to bring the unit to 1/3 strength with the elite pilots, and fill the rest with sub 70/70 pilots. As I get new elite pilots, they go into TRACOM and as the total elite & 70+/70+ increases above 1/3 the unit size, I pull out pilots for KB reserve. They receive 60+/70+ pilots from the training units in the Home Islands.

The Tojo... Yeah, they're better than the Oscar but not as good as the Zero. They are my mainstay for the IJAAF until the Frank comes along. I want to get to the IIc as soon as possible. With good pilots, they can hold their own. I use the Oscar for any long range escorts needed, but the 2E bombers end up on ground support missions, usually at or near the front. The 1E bombers eventually end up as ASW platforms, and the recon provide recon and naval search missions.

There are a LOT of IJAAF fighter training units to get their stats up to 60+/60+ and then they go to China to finish them off to 70+/70+ and then to the pool. It seems to work well for me.

I will keep your ideas in mind. That's definitely a good use for KB.

[Mike Solli]

For reinforcing Milne Bay, I would use Fast Transport TFs. The ships will bombard only the enemy ground troops and not the installations. You can even put battleships in the TFs. You can also just bring in supplies. This will also force the enemy to bombard your forces that is if they have anything to bombard.

Since you did so good at Singapore, you might have attacked again the next day but with all three divisions.

If you can, put a minefield on the approaches to Milne Bay in shallow water but not at the base. That way the enemy won't see the mines and you won't clear any the turn that they are laid.

I need to remember to use the fast transport mission in situations like these. I have troops available to reinforce and will use the fast transport mission. Question: Do you use multiple ships or send them in 1 ship TFs over several days?

[RangerJoe]

For reinforcing Milne Bay, I would use Fast Transport TFs. The ships will bombard only the enemy ground troops and not the installations. You can even put battleships in the TFs. You can also just bring in supplies. This will also force the enemy to bombard your forces that is if they have anything to bombard.

Since you did so good at Singapore, you might have attacked again the next day but with all three divisions.

If you can, put a minefield on the approaches to Milne Bay in shallow water but not at the base. That way the enemy won't see the mines and you won't clear any the turn that they are laid.

I need to remember to use the fast transport mission in situations like these. I have troops available to reinforce and will use the fast transport mission. Question: Do you use multiple ships or send them in 1 ship TFs over several days?

I use multiple ships. I include the fast BBs as well if they need to get in and out quickly. The heavier battleships will do nicely at Milne Bay. While the battleships don't carry troops nor supplies, they do shoot at the defenders. After the task forces drops the troops/supplies, then the task force becomes a surface task force. So might want to remember that when you set up your reaction range and threat tolerance.

Also, when the troops are dropped off they do not shock attack nor deliberate attack so plan accordingly.

Those Ansyu-C PBs work great for hauling armored and artillery units but they are much slower.

[PaxMondo]

There are a LOT of IJAAF fighter training units to get their stats up to 60+/60+ and then they go to China to finish them off to 70+/70+ and then to the pool. It seems to work well for me.

And work well. I will bring up one last item in regards to this topic of A6M pilots, remember that FP pilots can train CAP and that they are naval pilots. Yes, you will lose 3-5 pts of Exp when you convert them from FP to F, but you lose no skill points. It is a bit of a "grey" area to me, I use it in my AI games; my opponent doesn't seem to care. I don't think I would do it in a PBEM without a discussion with my opponent. Anyway, just in case ....

IJN pilots are always needed as far as I am concerned. I always have a surfeit of IJA pilots in all categories ...

[Mike Solli]

For reinforcing Milne Bay, I would use Fast Transport TFs. The ships will bombard only the enemy ground troops and not the installations. You can even put battleships in the TFs. You can also just bring in supplies. This will also force the enemy to bombard your forces that is if they have anything to bombard.

Since you did so good at Singapore, you might have attacked again the next day but with all three divisions.

If you can, put a minefield on the approaches to Milne Bay in shallow water but not at the base. That way the enemy won't see the mines and you won't clear any the turn that they are laid.

I need to remember to use the fast transport mission in situations like these. I have troops available to reinforce and will use the fast transport mission. Question: Do you use multiple ships or send them in 1 ship TFs over several days?

I use multiple ships. I include the fast BBs as well if they need to get in and out quickly. The heavier battleships will do nicely at Milne Bay. While the battleships don't carry troops nor supplies, they do shoot at the defenders. After the task forces drops the troops/supplies, then the task force becomes a surface task force. So might want to remember that when you set up your reaction range and threat tolerance.

Also, when the troops are dropped off they do not shock attack nor deliberate attack so plan accordingly.

Those Ansyu-C PBs work great for hauling armored and artillery units but they are much slower.

I actually have 2 fast BBs in the area, and have 4 DDs with them. I have another 2 older DDs in the area too. Combined, they can carry a full NG unit. I think I am going to give it a try.

[Mike Solli]

There are a LOT of IJAAF fighter training units to get their stats up to 60+/60+ and then they go to China to finish them off to 70+/70+ and then to the pool. It seems to work well for me.

And work well. I will bring up one last item in regards to this topic of A6M pilots, remember that FP pilots can train CAP and that they are naval pilots. Yes, you will lose 3-5 pts of Exp when you convert them from FP to F, but you lose no skill points. It is a bit of a "grey" area to me, I use it in my AI games; my opponent doesn't seem to care. I don't think I would do it in a PBEM without a discussion with my opponent. Anyway, just in case ....

IJN pilots are always needed as far as I am concerned. I always have a surfeit of IJA pilots in all categories ...

I am aware of that little "grey" area. I don't use it in my games. I am really pleased that your opponent doesn't mind you using it. Very accommodating opponent.

[Mike Solli]

23 Mar 42

Sub War

So it begins. The Dutch sub KVIII drew first blood against my tanker fleet, sinking the fully loaded Manju Maru, a Manzyu TM class fully loaded with 7950 tons of fuel bound for Truk. In retaliation, she was hit by a DC from an Ansyu PB. I don't have enough ASW assets in that area. I'm moving in some more Jakes to add to the coverage.

Elsewhere, I see two enemy subs sitting in Milne Bay. I have one there as well with another on the way. Neither of us wants the other to reinforce that base.

5 Fleet

Nothing to report.

4 Fleet

Nothing to report.

SE Fleet

Today, I had 34 Betties launch a torpedo raid on a small TF attempting to reinforce Milne Bay. And once again, the escort didn't fly. Three P-40Es were flying CAP over the base and managed to shoot down one Betty. The rest sank the 2 loaded APDs there. They had troops aboard and it appears the troops were some sort of support unit. I saw non-combat squads go down with the ships. Interestingly, I still see only 2 enemy ground units in the hex.

The Betties are stationed at Rabaul and the escort has been unsuccessfully attempting to fly from Gasmata. Today, I kept the fighters at Gasmata on escort and added a chutai of fighters from Rabaul to the escort for tomorrow.

I'm going to attempt to send reinforcements by fast transport, per Joe's suggestion.

Ten B-17Es flew against the poor, beat up SNLF at Milne Bay, but fortunately couldn't damage the unit (any further).

SRA

Kolaka was liberated (on Celebes) capturing the 40 resources intact. One unit was destroyed and the other fled into the jungle where it will rot.

Malaya

Singapore - 1534(+28) 621(-5) - Another deliberate assault goes in tomorrow, this time with 3 divisions.

Philippines

Bataan - 1079(+18) - 469(+2) - A deliberate assault chewed up the Allied troops further at basically no cost to the Japanese. I need to rest my infantry for a few days but will continue to bomb and bombard.

Borneo

Nothing to report.

Sumatra

Once again, I forgot to give the attack orders at Medan.

Java

More attacks against the Dutch chewed them up further, but I need to rest my infantry for a bit.

Burma

Ted sent some bombers against the 14 Tank Regiment today. They included 3 A29A Hudsons and 4 SB-III (Chinese!) and were opposed by 3 feeble Oscars. They damaged a few planes but couldn't shoot anything down. The bombers did nothing.

Two Hurricanes flew against Magwe today vs. 8 Zeros and 22 Oscars. Only the Oscars engaged and all they could do was damage the Hurricanes.

There was some good news on this front today. My deliberate assault of Mandalay was a wild success! The 18:1 attack against level 2 forts badly chewed up the Brits/Indian, destroying the 1 Gloucestershire Battalion in the process. The remnants withdrew over the river to Shwebo. Here's the good news: a total of 18 H81-A3 and 4 Hurricane IIa Trop were caught on the ground! Banzai!

China

Maneuvering...

Other Stuff

Nothing to report.

[PaxMondo]

... Very accommodating opponent.

Yes, he is. I'll pass that on to Andy.


ALL HAIL THE ANDY MAC !!!!!

[PaxMondo]

23 Mar 42

SE Fleet

Today, I had 34 Betties launch a torpedo raid on a small TF attempting to reinforce Milne Bay. And once again, the escort didn't fly.
...

The Betties are stationed at Rabaul and the escort has been unsuccessfully attempting to fly from Gasmata. Today, I kept the fighters at Gasmata on escort and added a chutai of fighters from Rabaul to the escort for tomorrow.

I mentioned earlier that I have been re-reading "The little Ship that could", Herb was/is a master of the air combat, in particular, coordination of attacks from multiple bases. He rarely talks much about "how" he does it, but here is one little snippet ...
https://forums.matrixgames.com/viewtopi ... 3#p2953333

Sumatra

Once again, I forgot to give the attack orders at Medan.

I wish I could poke fun at you here, but OMG I have done this SO many times. Worse, I do it once, and I tend to continue to overlook it for SEVERAL turns. Not sure what that is called ...

Burma


There was some good news on this front today. My deliberate assault of Mandalay was a wild success! The 18:1 attack against level 2 forts badly chewed up the Brits/Indian, destroying the 1 Gloucestershire Battalion in the process. The remnants withdrew over the river to Shwebo. Here's the good news: a total of 18 H81-A3 and 4 Hurricane IIa Trop were caught on the ground! Banzai!

BANZAI!!!! This isn't good news, it is GOOD NEWS!!!!

[Mike Solli]

... Very accommodating opponent.

Yes, he is. I'll pass that on to Andy.


ALL HAIL THE ANDY MAC !!!!!

Oh yeah!

[Mike Solli]

23 Mar 42

SE Fleet

Today, I had 34 Betties launch a torpedo raid on a small TF attempting to reinforce Milne Bay. And once again, the escort didn't fly.
...

The Betties are stationed at Rabaul and the escort has been unsuccessfully attempting to fly from Gasmata. Today, I kept the fighters at Gasmata on escort and added a chutai of fighters from Rabaul to the escort for tomorrow.

I mentioned earlier that I have been re-reading "The little Ship that could", Herb was/is a master of the air combat, in particular, coordination of attacks from multiple bases. He rarely talks much about "how" he does it, but here is one little snippet ...
https://forums.matrixgames.com/viewtopi ... 3#p2953333

Sumatra

Once again, I forgot to give the attack orders at Medan.

I wish I could poke fun at you here, but OMG I have done this SO many times. Worse, I do it once, and I tend to continue to overlook it for SEVERAL turns. Not sure what that is called ...

Burma


There was some good news on this front today. My deliberate assault of Mandalay was a wild success! The 18:1 attack against level 2 forts badly chewed up the Brits/Indian, destroying the 1 Gloucestershire Battalion in the process. The remnants withdrew over the river to Shwebo. Here's the good news: a total of 18 H81-A3 and 4 Hurricane IIa Trop were caught on the ground! Banzai!

BANZAI!!!! This isn't good news, it is GOOD NEWS!!!!

I've started reading "The Little Ship that Could" for the first time, when I get a chance. We're playing at such a rapid pace that I don't have a lot of time for it. I'm only on page 3...

Well, I finally told the slackers to attack. The assault force is an IR, SNLF and parachute SNLF.

Yeah, the plane losses are one thing, but the pilots are on a totally different level. I'm not sure about this mod, but in vanilla, there are a lot of extra pilots in the AVG squadrons. Hopefully, they were still there...

[PaxMondo]

I've started reading "The Little Ship that Could" for the first time, when I get a chance. We're playing at such a rapid pace that I don't have a lot of time for it. I'm only on page 3...

Enjoy!!

Somewhere in this one, I believe, I ask him to clarify how he gets such good results and he does. I'm on page 57 and haven't run across it yet ...

Well, I finally told the slackers to attack. The assault force is an IR, SNLF and parachute SNLF.

Yeah, the plane losses are one thing, but the pilots are on a totally different level. I'm not sure about this mod, but in vanilla, there are a lot of extra pilots in the AVG squadrons. Hopefully, they were still there...

And of course Ted could have shifted some of the pilots around, so who knows ... but we can always hope!

[Skyros]

An old post, but from one of the Air designers on coordination.

https://forums.matrixgames.com/viewtopi ... 2#p2087342

[Mike Solli]

24 Mar 42

Sub War

Nothing to report.

5 Fleet

Nothing to report.

4 Fleet

Nothing to report.

SE Fleet

Nine Zeros performed an LRCAP mission over Milne Bay and encountered 15 B-17Es escorted by 7 P-40Es. They shot down 5 of the Warhawks and damaged a third of the Fortresses. No damage was done to the poor SNLF at the base.

KB sent a force of 31 Vals and 31 Kates escorted by 28 Zeros to ravage the shipping at Pt. Moresby. One Kate crashed on return (KIA) but they sank an AM and 2 xAKs, and heavily damaged a DD, and 2 xAKLs. They were 7 hexes out so the Vals carried only 60kg bombs. Otherwise, probably everything would have been sunk. I did hear sinking sounds afterward. Hopefully, DD Stewart went down. Note that AM Finch was left untouched.

In the afternoon, 42 Kates escorted by 28 Zeros hit Pt. Moresby again, sinking an xAK with torpedoes. This was a strange attack. 17 Kates carried torpedoes and the remaining 25 carried 800 kg bombs, which they dropped on the port. I'm under the impression that an xAK cannot carry troops, but 18 non-combat squads were killed in the attack (along with 14 vehicles and 2 guns). In addition, 10 non-combat squads, 10 vehicles and an engineer were disabled. Also, no damage at all was done to the port. Odd. Finally, Lucky AM Finch was unhit again.

Again, following Joe's advice, I'm sending a minelaying sub to drop a minefield to the south of Milne Bay. Joe, you're sneaky!

SRA

Malaya

Singapore - 1565(+31) - 613(-8) - Deliberate attack: 1:1, fort 2 reduced to 1, 1 British unit destroyed. Going to do another deliberate assault tomorrow even though my infantry is tired. We'll see what happens.

Philippines

Bataan - 986(-93) - 396(-73) - Bombarding/bombing for another turn or 2 while the troops rest a bit.

Borneo

Still pumping, refining, and repairing oil.

Sumatra

Medan was hit by 63 Sally sorties, pummeling the ground troops. As I said above, the assault will finally go in tomorrow.

Java

Forgot to mention that all the oil on Java is repaired, as well as the refineries.

Burma

Four Zeros flew an LRCAP mission over 14 Tank Regiment. Two A29A and 3 SB-III came to bomb and the Zeros shot down one of each. The bombing was ineffective.

China

I have the victors of Nanyang on the road 1 hex to the NW of Nanyang, and the infantry has 0 supply, and none has been received for the last few turns. I decided to max out Nanyang's required supply to 25k and turn on stockpiling. I hope some flows there. Tomorrow, I'll turn off stockpiling and hope it flows to the army.

I just noticed that the number of troops in the army's hex is far over the max. Maybe that is it? Tomorrow, I'll move most out back to Nanyang. This is the first time I've played with stacking limits. It's definitely a pain.

Other Stuff

Nothing to report.

[RangerJoe]

Sneak and Peak!

Ships can load troops in cargo holds but at a very reduced rate. I think that it is only 25%.

[Mike Solli]

Sneak and Peak!

Ships can load troops in cargo holds but at a very reduced rate. I think that it is only 25%.

I'm aware of that capability for the Japanese, but I thought the Allies couldn't do it.

[BBfanboy]

Sneak and Peak!

Ships can load troops in cargo holds but at a very reduced rate. I think that it is only 25%.

I'm aware of that capability for the Japanese, but I thought the Allies couldn't do it.

Japanese can convert cargo space to carry troops at 1:1 levels while still keeping the xAK ship designation. That is only on xAKs with starting troop capacity of 240 or more. (240 becomes 990). Allies have to convert xAKs to xAPs to carry troops and lose some of the cargo-carrying abilities of an xAK - no Air Transport missions etc.

Both sides can carry troops in cargo space at 1 for 4 exchange.

[Mike Solli]

Sneak and Peak!

Ships can load troops in cargo holds but at a very reduced rate. I think that it is only 25%.

I'm aware of that capability for the Japanese, but I thought the Allies couldn't do it.

Japanese can convert cargo space to carry troops at 1:1 levels while still keeping the xAK ship designation. That is only on xAKs with starting troop capacity of 240 or more. (240 becomes 990). Allies have to convert xAKs to xAPs to carry troops and lose some of the cargo-carrying abilities of an xAK - no Air Transport missions etc.

Both sides can carry troops in cargo space at 1 for 4 exchange.

That's what I thought, BB. So, how do you explain this:

Afternoon Air attack on Port Moresby , at 98,130

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 87 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 37 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 28
B5N2 Kate x 42

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
xAK Johanne Justesen, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
AM Finch

Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 18 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 24 (14 destroyed, 10 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
25 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

Also attacking Port Moresby ...
Also attacking Port Moresby ...
Also attacking Port Moresby ...
Also attacking Port Moresby ...
Also attacking Port Moresby ...

[BBfanboy]

Extreme FOW on that one! There are support troops associated with guns and vehicles but I am unsure how the game handles their unloading. Do they unload with the other troops before the equipment is off-loaded? And if their equipment is lost by the ship sinking, do those support squads disappear too- but without casualties? Maybe they go to the pools?

[RangerJoe]

Some of those troops, I think the disabled ones, will be saved by escorts and/or other ships if they are there and have room. Even if there is no load listed for those ships, they have emergency loading. They will be unloaded at the next port that the TF stops at. If the unit was destroyed, the fragments will become the unit and can be built back from there. If the unit was bought back, then the fragments disappear. I do NOT know if the fragments then go into the stockpiles but that might happen.