Grand Campaign --- Q-Ball vs Sertorius21

[Sertorius21]

We are nearing the end of 1942 with Russian attacks always threatening to topple the thin German line, gaining local battles at a cost. Since M60 decided that there was no point in continuing his campaign, we thought it might be a good idea to provide some level of after action report on the basis of the few pictures taken along the way.

We settled on the following main changes to default settings:

- Reduced leader deaths
- Italian morale + 10, Rumanian + 5, Hungarian unchanged
- No para drops
- Limited amphibious invasions

Q-Ball plays the Russian and I lead the Axis. My experience is low to moderate on WitE 2 and quite high on counter & hex games (Europa and OCS mainly for this theatre of operations).

The initial turns are usually very scripted, thanks to excellent step-by-step advice on this forum, so I will not spend time with them, just mentioning that the 10 Pz and the Das Reich divisions were sent to help Kleist's PzG 1 in the South. Vitebsk fell on T3, Pskov on T4 and the first real level of action occurred on that turn, mid July. The Russians had found positions either in the poor terrain around Smolensk or behind rivers. Much as I distaste attacking strongly held positions, all the infantry and engineers that were available stormed Smolensk, defended by one division only. Doing so enabled to rout the tank divisions behind the town without having to attack across a river, and to pocket a few troops in the swamps.

[Sertorius21]

On the following turn, the Dnepr was crossed south east of Kiev, with an immediate counterattack by the Russians who pushed back 29 Mot. Still the 9 Pz ensured that the bridgehead was kept, leading to its rapid expansion and the fall of Kiev in the very early days of August.



Further south, 13 Pz and LSSAH were on loan to help 17th Army pocket a few divisions and set the scenes for a rapid assault on Odessa, which fell two or three weeks later. In anticipation of that assault, the commanders of LIV corps (now Weiss) and 17th Army (Model) were changed.



Sadly I had not taken any further screenshots until the end of the winter, so will need Q-Ball to contribute his own. In a nutshell, all went rather according to plan for the German, who had set the following levels of objectives:

- in the North, press as far as possible with only 1 and 8 Pz plus a few motorised divisions. Leningrad was not a primary objective as I baulked at committing too much resource in poor terrain, without the certainty of capturing that city. Then establish a strong line in good defensive conditions. This broadly worked fine, all the more as I created a Kessel between the troops attacking towards the North and those crossing the major river near Narva.

- At the hinge between AGN and AGC, create a strong defensive position around Velikiye Luki. This was successfully concluded.

- In the Centre, take Vyazma and Briansk, both of which required some energy but finally fell after being isolated. The area between these two cities was not captured though, and the German armies didn't have the strength to push any further in that space. The next priority was Orel and Rzhev out of the question.

- In the South, secure the double rail line beyond Dnepropetrovsk, capture Kharkov and then the Donbass. A number of Soviet units were surrounded in separate pieces of action, although the largest bag was only 6 divisions. The gates of the Crimea had been forced, with the Axis establishing itself just South of the Perekop isthmus. All this had gone decently well, despite the odd Russian counter attack.

Then the raspoutitsa brought the usual standstill.

[Q-Ball]

Unfortunately, I didn't take any screenshots at all until recently, and we are already in December 1942.....I have started now, and we can provide commentary on a delay. Mostly, all I can do is comment on what the overall strategy was...I don't even recall many of the tactical details!

Sertorius did a very good job picking off and routing/smashing rifle formations in the Summer '41 campaign, so I suffered fairly high losses, but not alot of encirclements. Overall though my strategy was:

1. In the NORTH, I prioritzed Leningrad right away, sending lots of units and otherwise trying my best here. I particularly focused on Novgorod, and holding the "Volkhov Corridor"; this is swampy/light woods area just west of the Volkhov, where a successful thrust would cut-off the City. Long-story short, I did manage to hold Leningrad (and in winter even managed to clear the double-track Moscow/Leningrad main line)
2. In the CENTER, really just trying to hold east of Smolensk and the terrain around Bryansk as long as possible
3. In the SOUTH, I retreated ahead of German infantry and just conceded ground

Nothing special really, tried to do some counterattacks just to keep him honest, and above all have enough depth in defense to prevent large pockets.

I ended-up holding Leningrad, Voronezh, Voroshilovgorod, and Rostov by end of summer, but all important points east (Smolensk, Bryansk, Orel, Kursk, Kharkov, Stalino) were taken. Kursk was not taken until November. By that time, I had alot of reserve armies building up for Winter Campaign

[TallBlondJohn]

Thanks for this, always good to see another campaign. Roll on the winter!

[Sertorius21]

So... Indeed the mood changed, ever so slightly, with the onset of winter. As I indicated, the Axis was quite satisfied with the level of losses inflicted on the Russians, basically half a million more than in the M60 game, admittedly without having captured Orel and Kursk, let alone Rostov. The struggles in the centre were not enough to offset the broader satisfaction of having crossed the Dnepr early (a critical objective) and then smashed all successive defence lines.

As usual, nothing happened during the mud turns, and the German machine rolled forward again as the ground froze under cold weather. Not everywhere though, as XXXXI PzK under Reinhardt was transferred discreetly from the Leningrad front to the Crimea and most of Army Group Centre took defensive positions. Actually Q-Ball threw a few attacks near Velikye Luki, where reserves failed to react and which helped him gain a couple of forest and woods hexes. The reserves were beefed up in this area, just in case he would want to continue in that direction.

So 2 PzG took Orel while 1 PzG pushed East of Stalino during a turn of cold weather. Then came a turn of blizzard on most of the map except in the extreme South. The last turn of cold weather across the map saw three pockets of action:

- 2 PzG cut off Kursk, enabling an assault on the city. The action was successful but required a lot of energy, leaving a line that was not overextended, with the Kursk anchor to help, but with a level of fatigue and supply stocks entirely depleted. At that point, I remember thinking that I hoped the Russians didn't have too many reserves in the area. 2 Army had already been forced on the defensive around Belgorod, apart from a couple of units helping Henrici's XXXXIII corps during the action. What supported this last drive was the feeling that rail line and marshalling yard repairs had gone well, with most of the rail in green status, otherwise yellow.

- 1 PzG chased the retreating Russians near Rostov and even took a marsh hex west of the city. After doing so, I already felt it was a stupid move even if I had pulled back 3 or 4 Pz or mot divisions to stay north of Stalino.

- XXXXI Pz Korps and, if my memory serves me well, 5 infantry divisions from 11 Army tore the Soviet line in the Crimea, capturing Yevpatoria, hence securing a port. The Russians were so badly beaten in this area that they soon lost Yalta as well. The level of commitment on the Axis side was not huge, even adding a few Rumanians, but the yield quite substantial.

So here I am, not quite reassured near Kursk yet not unduly worried, feeling overstretched between Stalino and Rostov, and vindicated in the Crimean side-show.

And here comes the blizzard.

[Sertorius21]

I just finished the last turn of 1942 in our live game, so time to look back at this fascinating period when I managed to swap a decently comfortable situation for a complete nightmare.

As I opened the screen after Q-Ball's turn, I could see that he had decided to get the whole Russian line back against the Axis, whereas there had previously been a number of areas with a couple of hexes of no man's land. This attracted a grunt as it came one turn too early in the Kursk area where a week to recover for the Germans would have done a lot of good. Then I looked at a couple of units and found then as weak as at the end of the previous turn, after they had attacked. Then I looked at the depots and was in a state of disbelief as the level 4s managed to bring less than a thousand tons each... All this despite rail lines apparently in pretty decent shape. I had forgotten that it was not the rail line status that mattered, but a formula whereby supply is massively slowed down.

The Kursk front collapsed first, not aided by the absence of reaction of 2 decently strong Pz divisions north of Belgorod. The Russian was able to trap an infantry division and a Hungarian brigade and although a corridor was reopened, I could not afford to fight for it. So they ended up as POWs. Even more damaging, the Russian fast units benefited from the apathy of a couple of leaders with initiative ratings of 7, yet not bothering to support their infantry one hex from them. Odds barely above 2:1 were sufficient in breaking the line SE of Kursk, while infiltration was terribly threatening between Kursk and Orel, leading to a fighting retreat with more defeats than I could afford. Initially Orel held as there were rested troops and reserves there, but they would be turned rapidly, all the more as the situation north of Bryansk was also worsening. It was only once Bryansk had fallen that a couple of counter attacks were staged, just to keep the Russian prudent and allow for an orderly withdrawal. The SW axis of the Russian thrust came within 3-4 hexes of Kiev, just because there were no troops with sufficient cohesion to make a stand.

The North, supposedly strong, yielded quickly, with 3 attacks in 3 contiguous hexes and German HQs providing zero, or near zero artillery support. If my memory is correct, the fort levels were 2 and 3, so even if a couple of the hexes were just wood, this was quite a devastating blow that sucked up reserves about 40 miles south of Leningrad. Meanwhile Velikye Luki was gain under attack and to protect this hub, I had to draw on whatever reserves were between this city and Staraya Russa. Q-Ball timed his attacks in such a way that the whole line collapsed like dominoes. Time and time again I had to throw back units into the line even if they would be pushed back, helping to farm Guards, just because there was just nobody left unless I took insane risks in those parts that were holding.

I also had 6 and 20 Pz in or next to Vyazma, who failed to support their infantry, so I shifted them to VL and they initially were performing as poorly in reaction before giving a bit of relief, even counter attacking a couple of times.

With the Pz going to VL and the Bryansk front in retreat, there was no point in hanging on Vyazma. Sadly, the retreat brought a few more opportunities of Russian victorious attacks. Ultimately, I managed to stabilise the front just before Smolensk, running south more or less towards Gomel and Kiev.

The Smolensk sector mid-March 1942

[Q-Ball]

Winter 41/42, Soviet Perspective

I wish I had taken some screenshots, so unfortunately have to go off memory

I don't recall doing anything particularly special for Winter, but I did do what I think are the Soviet basics:

--Build all the CAV Corps as soon as possible
--Aggressively use Tank and Rifle Bde attachments to farm wins for Guards
--Use the more mobile formations to exploit gaps (Cav, Armor/Mech, and Mountain units)

I did make sure to save all my Mountain units, and didn't get any destroyed after the first couple turns. Tried to keep the Cav and mobile units a bit back from the front as well, letting the RIfle units take the brunt

I did quickly build reserve armies as much as I could before December, and attacked nearly everywhere.

We didn't get as far as Kiev, but did re-take Vyazma, Orel, Kursk, Kharkov (later lost again), and the Donbas.

I do have a Loss Screen from Turn 33, which is early February 1942. We were comparing it to M60s game. Compared to that game:
--Soviets had higher losses overall, roughly 400K more
--Axis losses about the same, except in Tanks, which were higher in this game

Sertorius was using Panzers aggressively in Winter, so alot of German Tanks ended up lost. Not sure that's a big deal, since many of those are 1941 junk tanks

I did manage to make about 15 Guards Tank Brigades, and roughly 15 Guards Rifle Corps from the winter effort (including Brigades later combined)

Probably the main benefit of winter campaign, besides the Guards wins was re-capturing enough manpower to build 120K per turn through 1942 (when the Manpower modifier is 40; drops to 20 in 1943 IIRC)

T33 Losses.jpg (78.99 KiB) Viewed 727 times

[Sertorius21]

Indeed I was painfully surprised with the ability of cavalry and mountain infantry to move faster than the cumbersome, slow yet relentless Russian infantry. This accounted for some of my misfortunes in between Kursk and Orel, even if I had nicely set the scenes for such a counter blow which was skilfully exploited.

One of the issues I had was around getting the LW assets to support the troops on the ground. I get that such assets be located at corps level or higher, and cannot be attached to divisions. Yet there have been a number of times when corps with strong leaders such as Hollidt were entrusted with one or two units with plentiful 88s, and made no use of them when these would have been sufficient to break Russian attacks. I understand the general idea of LW units not being readily available for any wishes of the Heer. But having such units available in 1 in 5 or 1 in 7 enemy attacks makes them useless most of the time. You only have to look into how Rommel used his LW units in the desert to think that this is far fetched. The direct consequence is that all light LW battalions are now in reserve, with only mixed and heavy Flak distributed at corps level. I could live with a rule whereby attaching LW units to a division costs 1 AP, this would restrict the utilisation of such units without making most of them redundant.

Anyway enough of a rant, let's look at what happened in the South.

[Sertorius21]

Fighting in the South was more intense as there were a few strongholds and the Donetz helped initially. Regular counter attacks also inflicted large casualties on the Russians until the strength of my best divisions was spent. Much as it is against my religion to run any risk of a repulse, I had to wage a couple of small attacks with half strength in order to isolate the bigger stacks that had infiltrated. Fortunately, these attacks went as per the estimate calculated by the system, so achieved 3:1 or 5:1 odds, enough to move a couple of brigades or small divisions and leave the tougher Frontoviki exposed. Stalino had to be abandoned as it was turned from the South, and Kharkov as well, once the Donetz was no longer a strong protection.

Meanwhile in the Crimea, the Russians tried to break through north of Simferopol but had not counted on XXXXI PzK finishing to refit in the area after the success of early winter. The counter move brought the Germans close to Theodosia, which was taken in the Spring. Removing the threat in the Crimea enabled to send the XXXXI corps to Zaporozhe, to create a striking force for when the Soviets would near the City. This worked well, although the price to pay was a threat to the double rail line between Fastov and Dnepropetrovsk. The Germans barely held a few bridgeheads over the Dnepr in the end.

A good reflection on how desperate these times were was the number of successful Russian attacks across the whole front, sometimes in excess of 15!

[Sertorius21]

On this picture, taken in March, you can see how thin the line was between Kiev and Dnepropetrovsk. Of course, Q-Ball must have had supply issues of his own, but I could not gamble where his troops were well ahead of the railheads.

[Sertorius21]

Before we move to the next stage, which is the 1942 spring campaign, a cursory look at the line between VL and Staraya Russa is necessary as it tells the story of a major disaster.



The line around VL has more or less stabilised, but then there are 1 depleted rgt (1/122) and 1 full strength rgt (1/126) to hold about 100km of front line. The 8 Pz is under the 900L mot unit and failed its reaction test, so not only did the Russians take the wood hex south / south west of Staraya Russa, but they also grabbed a forest hex with the exploitation of 9 Cav corps, sending alarm all throughout OKH.

Desperate situations calling for desperate measures, it was decided that:

1. The swamps east of this forest hex had to be reoccupied and held "at all cost" (easier said than done)
2. Reinforcements would accelerate their move towards this area
3. 8 Pz (completely fresh having failed all its reactions!) would retake the woods next to 12 cav XX and try hold them
4. Rommel would be appointed in charge of XXXX PzK, on this picture probably under the army group HQ or in Pskov.

I don't have pictures but essentially the Russians bolstered 9 cav XXX with two rifle divisions in the forest, which nevertheless failed to take the swamps, so they went on the defensive. The hinges of that penetration were protected by infantry. Two or three weeks after this potential catastrophe, Rommel attacked the hinges and occupied them, isolating the units in the forest, just before the mud set in. After 3 weeks of isolation, these 25,000 troops were finished off before fair weather offered a chance to the Russians of relieving these forces.

This may seem a minor action but was a big morale booster. The German attacks were very successful and gained excellent defensive ground before before dry weather set in.

[Sertorius21]

Before we move to the next phase of the campaign, a word about resource management.

I could not understand why my units were not refitting properly, but of course it would have been at the detriment of supply. Q-Ball then suggested that I look into the production screen and check what was available, and if I had (in all likelihood) surplus troops, that I send divisions in Reserve to refit and get supplies for free. I had forgotten that a unit needed to be at least 10 hexes from the enemy to be sent into the Reserve.

Upon checking, I discovered that my pool was over 700,000 men, just for the Germans! So as of January 10th or 15th, a large number of divisions was sent back. I had lost 4 or 5 weeks as the first burned-out units should have been transferred in early December, but this helped tremendously and the first refitted divisions streamed back in February, helping to stem the red tide.

[Sertorius21]

Now onto the post Raspoutitsa season...

Basically the German army was still very weak, with a handful of fully restored divisions (TOE + CPP), a number of them having come back or been refitted recently that needed to accumulate CPPs, and quite a few still short of vehicles and equipment. Nevertheless I was able to expand a bit the bridgehead around Kremenchug. If my memory is correct, we then had a turn of rain. The Russians adjusted their line a bit, as they had Guards that could be exposed from a double envelopment.

When the sun came back, the ground was not completely dry and 11th Army, in purple, was still far from the top of its form. 17th Army in green and 1st Pz Army in red were slightly better, but with an Eastern flank to defend. Launching an operation just before mid-May was definitely premature but I had to take into account other factors:

- the Russian first line mostly had level 1 fortifications
- the LW would be supremely efficient
- Q-Ball would need to spread his reserves a bit before having a view on the main axis of advance

So off we went, pocketing about 80,000 troops although the local HQ managed to jump out when 23 Pz, having gone round, came from the North to flatten the pocket. There was a bit of space between the Soviet double line and the units I encountered further out. A few infiltrations, for instance from LSSAH, helped to neutralise the risk of a cavalry corps reacting and throwing into disarray the couple of Half attacks I needed to execute. It turned out that this was not a corps but a division. The corps were further out and won three battles against two PzD and a motorised division, but the ring was not breached.

A few of the units kept nearer to Dnepropetrovsk concluded the operation with two or three attacks on the units north of Das Reich. The balance was very positive, with 200,000 Russian casualties and low German losses. Also positive, the Russians withdrew the units closest to the Dnepr, to avoid creating a salient.

Turn 46 (mid-May) pocket after Russian counter attacks

[Sertorius21]

The line then settled south of Poltava. You can see the prudence with which the Italians moved (or didn't) in the space vacated by the Russians.

Turn 48, end of May



Of course, the next question was about pushing north or east. My reasoning was that I needed to get more elbow room and also a better line of supply before making another big move on the Poltava - Kharkov axis. What you can already see is the transfer in the command structure, with 17th Army taking a semi-defensive role, whereas part of 11 Army, in assault mode, starts to face east.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Before we move to the next phase of the campaign, a word about resource management.

I could not understand why my units were not refitting properly, but of course it would have been at the detriment of supply. Q-Ball then suggested that I look into the production screen and check what was available, and if I had (in all likelihood) surplus troops, that I send divisions in Reserve to refit and get supplies for free. I had forgotten that a unit needed to be at least 10 hexes from the enemy to be sent into the Reserve.

Upon checking, I discovered that my pool was over 700,000 men, just for the Germans! So as of January 10th or 15th, a large number of divisions was sent back. I had lost 4 or 5 weeks as the first burned-out units should have been transferred in early December, but this helped tremendously and the first refitted divisions streamed back in February, helping to stem the red tide.

You don't need to send to reserve at all for refitting . You can fill up real quick on a well stocked depot and leader very easily even close to the enemy.

[Sertorius21]

"well stocked depot"?

This was definitely not a fashionable concept during the 1941-1942 winter, most of the units south of Bryansk being around 50% on supplies, fuel and ammo. So I did refit a number of divisions on the map, but sent probably 15-20 back in Reserve including a few small allies. Those units were no longer absorbing on map supplies that were so sorely needed for the front line and when they came back, the strain on the supply system was not so acute.

[Sertorius21]

Before I look at the next sequence of events in June 1942, I have a challenge to suggest to the members of this forum: what would you make of this probe attack on the live game in January 1943?



On the face of it, it makes no sense. Q-Ball is trashing one hex per turn between VL and Staraya Russa. He has shaken the line south of Smolensk, taken a couple of important hexes (swamps) as well as a stretch of clear terrain, and last turn regrouped his forces for a new assault, possibly in another direction. So what is in your opinion the reason for this strange move near Stalino? Just to give a bit of context, I don't remember any attack with less than 200,000 men and nearly 4,000 guns.

I have 4 or 5 possible reasons in my mind for doing this and welcome any insights.

[Sertorius21]

So... Back in June 1942. It took 4 more weeks for the Axis to stage the move towards the east, in order to move troops into position, get them at the right CPP level, bring anybody from the line south of the Dnepr to join the fray, and get a clear sky. At best, I could have started a week earlier, but LW support was too critical to rush this operation, which you can call Cannae II in some ways.

I counted a bit on the Russian line being stretched and even more so on having more than 40 divisions in the striking force. Small contributions from 6th and 17th Armies, and main strike forces with 1Pz and 11th Armies.

The Russian line was no longer 2 deep but 3 deep + cav and guards corps further out, fortunately not everywhere. One such deep reserve was hit by my Pz, whereas the south-eastern flank looked less threatening. Six divisions were pocketed. I again tried to get the HQ to come into the Kessel but it jumped, so my priority was to flatten the trapped Russians back to the original front line with half attacks. Despite the size of the striking force, I didn't have much left after these sweeps, maybe a strong PzK to follow up if the Russians wanted to fight it out in the area.



The outcome was satisfactory again, as the Soviet line withdrew, including all its southern element.

Meanwhile, the Italians are able to follow cautiously the advancing line.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

"well stocked depot"?

This was definitely not a fashionable concept during the 1941-1942 winter, most of the units south of Bryansk being around 50% on supplies, fuel and ammo. So I did refit a number of divisions on the map, but sent probably 15-20 back in Reserve including a few small allies. Those units were no longer absorbing on map supplies that were so sorely needed for the front line and when they came back, the strain on the supply system was not so acute.

The trick is to stockpile supplies behind the line and leave them at level 4 then release those stockpiles forward when needed in the winter since they won't have to travel far. As you can see in this picture I have 3k - 8k of supply in these depots waiting for winter right now turn 14ish of my current game. I do this in all the areas on the map and will do wonders for surviving the winter.

depot stockpiling.png (3.97 MiB) Viewed 449 times

[Sertorius21]

Wow! I had completely missed this, at a terrible cost both during the winter and even more so subsequently when having to face an outsized Russian army.