CPP gain of SUs - special rules?

[Wiedrock]

CPP has altered my game style in an admin/maintenance sense.

New support units from Reserve go to Stavka with zero CPP. And the window thAT is used to assign SUs to HQs does not show CPP. To avoid assigning SUs with low CPP I do the following :

Assign a HQ to an Assualt Front for quicker buildup of cpp. Do not assign any on map units to that HQ to avoid command capacity complications.

Transfer all SUs with zero or low CPP, or in an unready state or low TOE to this HQ. When they are at 100% transfer them out.

I do this every turn. And yes it is tedious.

Ajax remembered me about a problem I had a while ago.

CPP_gain_Artillery.jpg (251.59 KiB) Viewed 646 times

Which is that SUs(Artillery(?)) CPP gains seem off from Manual descriptions known to me.
At a 200SMP HQ (not moved) you'd expect 200SMP/24x3=25CPP gain.
But it actually is +33CPP and when being an ASSAULT HQ, it remains 33CPP (1st turn on new assignment), and the following turn it is +66CPP. Whie the ASSAULT should actually give +50CPP (200/24*3*2=50CPP) in the second turn.

• What I suspected:
  HQ SMP are being used for SUs, so from the HQ we get:
  200/24*3=25CPP.
  So, where do the other 8CPP come from?
  It could have been that an SU also has 200SMP (which we can not see in any UI area I think). So if the SU is re-assigned and the previous HQ and the new HQ didn't move with it attached it has 200SMP.
  This would give us (assuming that SUs are always considered "in non friendly hexes/adjacent to an enemy/an enemy hex):
  200SMP/24=8,33CPP
  Together that's 25+8,33=33,33=~+33CPP.
  Would make sense (some), but it's not like that.
  To test this, I moved an HQ with an 70CPP Artillery SU until the HQ only had 100SMP left. Then I reassigned the SU.
  What I expected was the aforementioned +25CPP and additional 100SMP/24=4.167CPP.
  So the reassigned 35CPP should change to 35+25+4=64CPP.
  But that is not what happens. I again, gain +33CPP.
  So I end up with 68CPP.
• next idea:
  Now....another possibility could have been a secret "bonus for HQs for not moving at all".
  So now moving this HQ to 120(exact) SMP with keeping the 68CPP SU attached, and assuming the "hidden bonus" removed by movement and applying normal rules I'd expect:
  120/24=5CPP*3=+15CPP. So 68+15=83CPP. Without any bonus for not moving.
  But I end up with 88CPP, so 68+20.
• Lets look at the ratios:
  What are the ratios for the two examples for gained CPP comparing actual vs rule CPP....?
  33/25=1.32
  20/15=1.33
  So it appears that SUs seem to gain CPP at another rate than Combat Units/descibed in the manual. It seems like being +33% more effective.

Now what may be the reason?
I suspect the divider simply to be different:
24SMP/1.33ratio=18SMP
which would lead to the numbers we've got:
200SMP/18*3=+33,33CPP
120SMP/18*3=+20CPP
So SUs may use HQ SMP at +1CPP per 18SMP?!

[Joel Billings]

Do you have a save. I did a quick test of a German and a Soviet arty unit in a HQ with 200 SMPs and both units gained 25 CPPs as expected. This in a human versus human game with 100 on all help levels.

[Wiedrock]

Do you have a save. I did a quick test of a German and a Soviet arty unit in a HQ with 200 SMPs and both units gained 25 CPPs as expected. This in a human versus human game with 100 on all help levels.

The posted screens are from an normal PBEM, so its not a AI thing or so.
I'll set up a test save tomorrow.

[Wiedrock]

So, just started a normal GC41.
All Soviet SUs have 4CPP on T1. HQ will not be moved. We now can test adjacent to enemy Hex and "save Hex" simultaneously. Which appears to indicate that SUs do nto count as being adjacent to an enemy hex (at least not fully), which I feel is fine, but the "save" SUs are getting the +33CPP pointed out.

SUCPP.png (1.02 MiB) Viewed 516 times

Then T2 you see the weirdness.

SUCPPT2.png (568.7 KiB) Viewed 516 times

Attached are
Soviet T1
Soviet END T1
Axis END T2
Soviet T2

[MarkShot]

Wiedrock,

If you don't mind me piggy backing on your thread as all things SU. (if you ask, I will delete and create a separate thread)

I wanted to ask players.

How do you SU and why?

* Game defaults of SLEV=3?

* Pushing SUs up and then down with 0-9 SLEV to load up certain HQs and strip others (and then only allow trickle down from above)?

* Manually assigning SUs to HQs once you got them pooled above and then locking?

* Manually assigning SUs to HQs and CUs once you got them pooled above and then locking?

This SU stuff is very powerful and a game within the game. Certainly for cracking fortifications loading up CUs in contact with pioneers (combat engineers) and HQs no more than 2 hex from the attack with arty will seriously drop fort levels; potentially allowing the next charge to take the objective.

On the negative side, you need to be thinking 3-4 turns ahead. As it takes turns for the game to move SUs up and down. SUs at the CU level can only be manually dettached. And finally, I think you only get 50% SU CV assigned in the given turn. So, thinking ahead pays off substantially.

Thank you.

[Wiedrock]

If you don't mind me piggy backing on your thread as all things SU.

I don't mind.

* Manually assigning SUs

I do this.

[Wiedrock]

On the negative side, you need to be thinking 3-4 turns ahead. As it takes turns for the game to move SUs up and down. SUs at the CU level can only be manually dettached. And finally, I think you only get 50% SU CV assigned in the given turn. So, thinking ahead pays off substantially.

Btw. what do you mean by that 50%-thing?

[MarkShot]

If in a given turn, I manually assign 3 pioneer SUs to an ID. I believe if I attack within in that turn, their CV contribution and special fort reduction ability is reduced by 50%. You will get the full 100% on the next turn.

However, SUs are assigned by an HQ, this is not penalized, but, of course, this is less of a sure thing.

[Wiedrock]

I don't know off such a mechanic existing. You have any quote on that in the manual?
They lose 50% of their current CPP when you reassign them (maybe that's what you mean)?

[MarkShot]

Just something I recall. There is so much to know. And not even the people who wrote the code remember anymore.

Switch toggled up or down arms the device? idk

[Joel Billings]

Thanks for the saves, we'll look into it.

[MarkShot]

Is there ever any reason to set non CORPS SLEV > 1? I know SLEV = 0 pushes all up to the senior national node. I know SLEV = 1 allows SUs to move up and down. I know engineers are not impacted, nor attached SUs to DIV or below.

It seems to me that it is mainly CORPS HQs which allocate SUs to battles and deploy arty if within 2 hexes of battle.

So, why would you ever set a non-CORPS HQ SLEV > 1?

Thank you. (Wiedrock and HYLA feel free to jump in and educated me. Most of my understanding is from Strategy Gaming Dojo.)